Soriano: Nats have 3 weeks to "fix it"

[Stoud]

Re: Soriano: Nats have 3 weeks to "fix it"

In this scenario I have no pity for the Nationals.

Every one in baseball has known that Soriano has never wanted to move from 2B. The Nationals set themselves up for disaster.

I hate it when players demand things or don't play hard, but Soriano is right in this situation. 2B is his position. Why should he move because someone wants him to?

Why should he move if someone wants him to? because it's a team sport. You can't play the game without a full team. You can't play the game at just one position. If you ask me, all the players in the MLB should be ready and willing to make moves defensively when needed and asked for. This isn't the easiest move in the world, but it's certainly not the hardest. Knowing the calibur player that Soriano is (or should I say was, I just loved that "oh by the way we forgot to tell you he's 2 years older than it says on his ID" bit) it wouldn't be too hard, and he wasn't so opposed to it before for other teams, what is the difference now? Soriano could be awesome in the outfield, but now he won't even give it a chance?

Soriano definitely lost some respect from me when he decided not to do this. It doesn't matter if every other superstar in the majors right now is babied - given everything they want and not expected to do anything but play well - that's no excuse to be acting like anyone, especially you, deserves to be given that "special status". There is no "I" in team. You don't make the rules, you don't win the games, the team does. This is especially true of Soriano, who has fallen off the charts somewhat since his move from the yanks. an average under .270? mediocre. 28 homers in TEXAS? mediocre from him. If I remember correctly he was injured, so he has a bit of an excuse for that.

Soriano is asking for respect he has not earned, and he is certainly not doing himself any favors by denying the team's wishes.

[Rod_Carew29]

Re: Soriano: Nats have 3 weeks to "fix it"

H-E-L-L-O!!! You said it perfectly...If some of these other guys put two and two together, they'd understand the whole deal. This nonsense about him "just play and help the team", "he's lazy", "if your manager tells you to, you should"...is ALL ignorant. Many of these guys sound like the callers on sports talk radio...those who continually who just pile on and pile on to whatever a particular host puts out there...without any individual critical thought.

If any of these guys have been paying attention, they'd understand that going back to his FIRST season with the Yankees, Sori has voiced his displeasure of playing in the outfield...Going back further...to his days of playing for the Hiroshima Carp, Sori played only 9 games in the outfield (his last season with them) in 1997.

From 1999-2003 with the Yankees and in the Yankees' minor league system, Sori played 2B, 3B and SS. It was during one of the Spring Training seasons that he first said that any experiment to put him in the outfield would not be welcome by him.

EVERYONE in baseball knew that he would not welcome playing in the outfield...the GM's, players, managers, team announcers, etc. So what did Bowden think he was going to do? How silly!

Also, as a Mets fan, I've seen what CAN happen when you put a player in a new position and it does NOT work out. Remember:

Juan Samuel?
(from being an All-Star second baseman to center fielder-horror)
Todd Hundley?
(from being a catcher to left fielder-double horror)
Mike Piazza?
(from catcher to first baseman-let's not even mention it)

And let's NOT overlook the fact that once a player plays a new position that he has not embraced, it can be a complete CIRCUS between dealing with potentially crazed fans and the relentless media.

If he botches a couple of plays in left and causes the Nats two or three games, the FANS and MEDIA will be all over his *** without letting up. So how is that going to benefit either side?

peace!

In this scenario I have no pity for the Nationals.

Every one in baseball has known that Soriano has never wanted to move from 2B. The Nationals set themselves up for disaster.

I hate it when players demand things or don't play hard, but Soriano is right in this situation. 2B is his position. Why should he move because someone wants him to?

[Rod_Carew29]

Re: Soriano: Nats have 3 weeks to "fix it" @ nyyanksfan20

As a Mets fan, I say...heck yeah...I'd like to see him at second for the Mets--and then have the Mets send Matsui somewhere else. I'm with you though, I'm not sure if he'd want to go to the Mets...and yes, he has said that he will always love playing in New York.

peace!

I could definetly see Sori going to the Mets where he could play 2b. I just don't know if the Nats would trade within the division to the Mets, they might have too. Sori has always said how much he loves New York, even hinted at times he would move to the outfield for the Yanks, i'm not sure how he feels about the "other" New York team though.

[rsox]

Re: Soriano: Nats have 3 weeks to "fix it"

Even if the Mets were to get Soriano it would probably be only for one year. Anderson Hernandez and Jeff Keppinger are both ready to play now so even if the Mets were to re-sign Soriano they would likely...wait for it...move him to the OF. Soriano is a defensive liability at 2B, he thinks he is going to get a big money contract next winter because he can hit...BIG DEAL!!!. Jeff Kent can hit and is free agent next winter and i would sign him before i would waste money on Soriano. All he is showing the league is how selfish a player he is that because he is in a contract year he doesn't want to change positions and risk lowering his value on the free agent market. Guess what Alfonso, the team comes first. Move to the OF put up your numbers "which will likely drop at RFK), worry about your contract after the season and shutup!!.

[deeman11747]

Re: Soriano: Nats have 3 weeks to "fix it"

I dont understand why they dont move him back to his natural position of SS and get Guzman and his .260 OBP out of the lineup.

[AI_Franchise]

Re: Soriano: Nats have 3 weeks to "fix it"

What was the point of acquiring Sori when you have Vidro? They knew this was going to happen and still agreed to go through with it.

[rsox]

Re: Soriano: Nats have 3 weeks to "fix it"

I dont understand why they dont move him back to his natural position of SS and get Guzman and his .260 OBP out of the lineup.

Because Guzman is in the 2nd year of a 4 year $26 million dollar contract and would be too expensive for a team like Washington to sit on the bench.

[CMH]

Re: Soriano: Nats have 3 weeks to "fix it"

Why should he move if someone wants him to? because it's a team sport. You can't play the game without a full team. You can't play the game at just one position. If you ask me, all the players in the MLB should be ready and willing to make moves defensively when needed and asked for. This isn't the easiest move in the world, but it's certainly not the hardest. Knowing the calibur player that Soriano is (or should I say was, I just loved that "oh by the way we forgot to tell you he's 2 years older than it says on his ID" bit) it wouldn't be too hard, and he wasn't so opposed to it before for other teams, what is the difference now? Soriano could be awesome in the outfield, but now he won't even give it a chance?

Soriano definitely lost some respect from me when he decided not to do this. It doesn't matter if every other superstar in the majors right now is babied - given everything they want and not expected to do anything but play well - that's no excuse to be acting like anyone, especially you, deserves to be given that "special status". There is no "I" in team. You don't make the rules, you don't win the games, the team does. This is especially true of Soriano, who has fallen off the charts somewhat since his move from the yanks. an average under .270? mediocre. 28 homers in TEXAS? mediocre from him. If I remember correctly he was injured, so he has a bit of an excuse for that.

Soriano is asking for respect he has not earned, and he is certainly not doing himself any favors by denying the team's wishes.

While I understand where you are coming from you are missing the point.

Soriano plays 2B. The team traded for him and now wants him to change his position. While I agree that it would be nice to see a player say, "Whatever for the team!" that's not always the case nor does it have to be. 2B is Soriano's position. He shouldn't have to change if he doesn't want to just because the team asks him to.

If you were an all-star 3B and a random team traded for you and told you, "Oh, by the way, we have your rights now and you have to play RF," I doubt you'd be so willing to say, "Hey, no problem!"

I'm sure with the kind of person you are you'd do it eventually. And that's nice. But, honestly, think about it. Someone trades for you and then tells you you have to do something totally different then what you are accustomed to and willing to do?

This falls on the Nationals. They knew what they were doing and should have been aware of the situation. Soriano has let everyone know from day one that 2B is the only position he wants to play. I don't see anything wrong with him feeling that way.

[Misfit]

Re: Soriano: Nats have 3 weeks to "fix it"

His employer will pay him 10 million dollars this year, more than he has ever made, for him to play the outfield. I do not feel the least bit sorry for Soriano nor do I condone his actions in anyway if he has to play a position that isn't his favorite. Especially considering he is a terrible second baseman. If not for the fact that he can hit some homeruns the guy wouldn't be able to get a job as a second baseman for any team. He's only making a stink about it because he stands to make more money next year if he's a power hitting second basemen instead of a corner outfieldeer. And considering he's probably already cheated his employers out of some money by lieing about his age, he should shut his mouth and do what he's told.

Soriano at shortstop? Yeah, that would go over well...

[StabMasterArson]

Re: Soriano: Nats have 3 weeks to "fix it"

His employer will pay him 10 million dollars this year, more than he has ever made, for him to play the outfield. I do not feel the least bit sorry for Soriano nor do I condone his actions in anyway if he has to play a position that isn't his favorite. Especially considering he is a terrible second baseman. If not for the fact that he can hit some homeruns the guy wouldn't be able to get a job as a second baseman for any team. He's only making a stink about it because he stands to make more money next year if he's a power hitting second basemen instead of a corner outfieldeer. And considering he's probably already cheated his employers out of some money by lieing about his age, he should shut his mouth and do what he's told.

Soriano at shortstop? Yeah, that would go over well...

I Agree.

[Rod_Carew29]

Re: Soriano: Nats have 3 weeks to "fix it" @ misfit

"His employer will pay him 10 million dollars this year, more than he has ever made, for him to play the outfield. I do not feel the least bit sorry for Soriano nor do I condone his actions in anyway if he has to play a position that isn't his favorite..."

Eight words to you:

He is a FREE AGENT after this season.

If you're paying attention, you'd know that his (or any player who's up for Free Agency) worth is with his NATURAL position come $$ time. The offensive numbers he puts up as a second baseman, are almost unparalleled in today's market. Other than Jeff Kent, tell me another second baseman playing now who can put up comparable offensive stats? With his SAME numbers, he wouldnt even come close to what he can get on the Free Agent market. If it was YOUR butt Misfit..and if you're honest...you are not going to change positions in your Free Agent year.

You'd change positions knowing that the numbers you put up will barely make a dent in the class of outfielders? Not! You'd be cutting of your nose to spite your face.

PS...why are you so tight with Sori? Your issue SHOULD be direct at Jim Bowden. Yeah, him. I mean c'mon...if you're a Bosox fan, you're certainly close enough to NYC to hear what went on when he was a Yank. And between WEEI-AM & WFAN-AM...you all have heard what Sori has said for at least 5 years now..."I am not going to play the outfield!"

If YOU were a GM (that's a luagh)...and you knew this, you mean to tell me that you'd sign him and not even talk to Soriano beforehand? Everyone of any importance in MLB knows his position. And yes, GM Jim Bowden never thought enough to place a call BEFORE pulling the trigger on this deal.

Bowden screwed up no matter how you look at it.

"...Especially considering he is a terrible second baseman. If not for the fact that he can hit some homeruns the guy wouldn't be able to get a job as a second baseman for any team..."

But the FACT IS...he DOES hit homeruns...it's not his fault that he's sooo talented LMAO!

It was only last week that WEEI and XM Satellite Radio were discussing the rumor of Sori playing SECOND BASE for the RED SOX! And you know what? I do like the Red Sox anyway...and I'd love 'em more if he played for them!!!

Another thing...he may be a 'terrible' second baseman, but I'll GLADLY get rid of the Met's Matsui for him. With no questions.

Errors...a short list:

Soriano made 21 errors in 153 games
Rickie Weeks made 21 errors in 95 games!
Jeff Kent made 16 errors in 140 games
Robinson Cano made 17 errors in 131 games
Chase Utley made 15 errors in 135 games
Kaz Matsui made 9 errors in 71 gamessr

"...He's only making a stink about it because he stands to make more money next year if he's a power hitting second basemen instead of a corner outfieldeer..."

DUH!!! HELLO!!! You just said it. He's SUPPOSED to make a stink in his Free Agent Year. What is it with some of you all, where you act like you don't know? Stop hatin' on him because he is making millions and will be making millions more. I HOPE...reallly...I HOPE he winds up in Boston as the Bosox' starting second baseman (Loretta and his recent injuries are no guarentee he'll stay healthy). And I hope his offensive numbers are out of this world. It'll be YOU shutting your mouth and certainly NOT him LOL!

"...And considering he's probably already cheated his employers out of some money by lieing about his age, he should shut his mouth and do what he's told. Soriano at shortstop? Yeah, that would go over well"

Now you're crying like those certain type of folks that call sports talk radio..."probably already cheated his employers..."?!??! You're so mad at whatever, that you don't know what to say. Why don't you throw in the kitchen sink too, while you're at it?

PS...He did play shortstop at one time....and it ain't no big deal

[Stoud]

Re: Soriano: Nats have 3 weeks to "fix it" @ misfit

Eight words to you:

He is a FREE AGENT after this season.

He mentions that in what he wrote...don't pull that ol' "you're stupid for not mentioning this but oh wait you did" debate maneuver. It's pathetic. Puh-leeze.

If you're paying attention, you'd know that his (or any player who's up for Free Agency) worth is with his NATURAL position come $$ time.

So you freely admit to being FOR larger and larger paychecks for players that just keep getting whinier and whinier? Noted and pitied. That's some kind of entirely capitalist opinion, you got there boss!

The offensive numbers he puts up as a second baseman, are almost unparalleled in today's market. Other than Jeff Kent, tell me another second baseman playing now who can put up comparable offensive stats?

Uhh....lessee. A .270 avg, 30 home runs, errors galore....wait, wait, I know this! the answer iiiss...

CHASE UTLEY! Hmm...lets compare his contract to Soriano's!

With his SAME numbers, he wouldnt even come close to what he can get on the Free Agent market. If it was YOUR butt Misfit..and if you're honest...you are not going to change positions in your Free Agent year.

Now, I know this is not directed at me, but I just couldn't help but pick apart your argument. If it's me and I'm honest? I probably wouldn't WANT to move to the outfield, I'd probably ask that if it was expected of me, I would only play a certain number of games in the outfield....say...50 or 60...as opposed to full season. You can't expect someone to just change their position so drastically right before the season starts and force them to play 162 games at that position. Infact, showing versatility around the entire field would probably help him more in a contract year than all this whining is doing.

If YOU were a GM (that's a luagh)...and you knew this, you mean to tell me that you'd sign him and not even talk to Soriano beforehand? Everyone of any importance in MLB knows his position. And yes, GM Jim Bowden never thought enough to place a call BEFORE pulling the trigger on this deal.

Bowden screwed up no matter how you look at it.

I agree that this was a foolish move, and he didn't do his job as well as he could have. However, I still think Soriano could be a bit more hospitable, less concerned with the money he's going to make, and more concerned with the game that he's supposed to love to play, suppopsed to love more than money.

But the FACT IS...he DOES hit homeruns...it's not his fault that he's sooo talented LMAO!

Hitting home runs doesn't make you talented, especially when you make a boatload of errors at your given position and can't hit for average.

It was only last week that WEEI and XM Satellite Radio were discussing the rumor of Sori playing SECOND BASE for the RED SOX! And you know what? I do like the Red Sox anyway...and I'd love 'em more if he played for them!!!

No doubt Soriano would be awesome in that tiny Double A park they got in Boston, but with Mark Loretta at second, you're looking at a possible big year from him as well. That's just another log jam. That's piling one problem onto another problem.

Another thing...he may be a 'terrible' second baseman, but I'll GLADLY get rid of the Met's Matsui for him. With no questions.

Why exactly would the Nats trade Soriano for Matsui in any case whatsoever? I wouldn't mind seeing Soriano in NY again either, but if that's what the Mets are offering? Good luck. The Nats need an outfielder, and the Mets don't have many to spare. Something tells me Soriano will be playing short for the Nats until they can trade him midseason.

Errors...a short list:

Soriano made 21 errors in 153 games
Rickie Weeks made 21 errors in 95 games!
Jeff Kent made 16 errors in 140 games
Robinson Cano made 17 errors in 131 games
Chase Utley made 15 errors in 135 games
Kaz Matsui made 9 errors in 71 gamessr

hey look! you didn't forget Chase! Here I was thinking that you're assumption that no other second baseman in the majors could compare to soriano based on numbers was because you didn't know who Chase Utley was, but apparently I was wrong. Silly me!

DUH!!! HELLO!!! You just said it. He's SUPPOSED to make a stink in his Free Agent Year. What is it with some of you all, where you act like you don't know? Stop hatin' on him because he is making millions and will be making millions more.

What better reason? He's making more than some of the greatest players alive in other popular sports, what makes him so special that he deserves so much more? The MLB desperately needs a salary cap, and until it happens (if it ever does), the fans have a right to be upset about how much money the players are making and how it is affecting their attitudes. Don't kid yourself, we're seeing some of the most selfish players in all of Baseball history right now.

I HOPE...reallly...I HOPE he winds up in Boston as the Bosox' starting second baseman (Loretta and his recent injuries are no guarentee he'll stay healthy).

Ahh come on, don't be like that. If Loretta gets injured sometime this season, you know the Sox will probably trade for Soriano or someone else, but my point would be that if it happens, it's most likely only going to happen midseason.

Now you're crying like those certain type of folks that call sports talk radio..."probably already cheated his employers..."?!??! You're so mad at whatever, that you don't know what to say. Why don't you throw in the kitchen sink too, while you're at it?

okay, now this comment threw me for a loop. We can all debate til' we're blue in the face over whether or not the age descrepency was purposeful or accidental, but that doesn't mean we're upset to the point of hating the player just based on it. We mention it because it's still a mystery, and it still smells fishy. When discussing things of this matter, you should take everything you can think of into account before making a rationalized decision as to your opinion on the matter.

Who is mad?

who or what is this whatever that you mention?

why don't we know what to say?

what's with the kitchen sink?

PS...He did play shortstop at one time....and it ain't no big deal

Well that's good news, hopefully the Nats won't feel too pressured into making a trade ASAP if he is willing to play short. Someone better be willing to play short, cause Guzman is stinkin it up.

[Rod_Carew29]

Re: Soriano: Nats have 3 weeks to "fix it" @ misfit

Stoud...you know you're a riot..and I don't take you seriously..you're a little all over the place too, but I'll reply to you in general. You're right, my reply wasn't directed to you, but I'm cool with you stepping up. One of the things you say which IS silly, is, " ...If it's me and I'm honest? I probably wouldn't WANT to move to the outfield, I'd probably ask that if it was expected of me, I would only play a certain number of games in the outfield....say...50 or 60...as opposed to full season.."

Let me stop you right there. You claim that you don't like Soriano's position/stance he's taken on this whole matter. What would YOU say if Sori took a page from YOUR book (that' reallys funny) and told the Nats management that he'll only play a 1/3 of the season out in left? Please...you'd try to portray in a worse light than you're already doing.

Stroud said:

"You can't expect someone to just change their position so drastically right before the season starts and force them to play 162 games at that position."

Your basic premise is right, but who knows what the Nats management has in mind...assuming Vidro is healthy


Stroud said:

"Infact, showing versatility around the entire field would probably help him more in a contract year than all this whining is doing."

That is totally baseless. Versatility in a players' free agent walk year? A player who is (whether you like it or not) at the TOP of offense for his position. Stop the madness will ya?

Stroud said:

"So you freely admit to being FOR larger and larger paychecks for players that just keep getting whinier and whinier? Noted and pitied. That's some kind of entirely capitalist opinion, you got there boss!"

What in the hell does your twisted logic have to do with free agency?!?!? What exactly oh wise one...what exactly did you hear or read from Soriano himself. Also, since when whining = big free agent payouts. That's a players' right. It's part of the game, if you will. And who cares what you think, I think or anyone else thinks. If ur behind was in the Majors, and you were up for free agency, you'd be trying to get as much as you can too.

Stroud said:

"CHASE UTLEY! Hmm...lets compare his contract to Soriano's!"

I told you I pay you no mind...at this point in his career, Utley can't hold Soriano's jock. Let me see Chase put up another 3 or 4 years of 25+ homerun seasons, pounding those extra base hits...then you get back to me.


Stroud said:

"I agree that this was a foolish move, and he didn't do his job as well as he could have."

So why is your azz letting Bowden off so damn quick? Why? He is the #1 problem here. Furthermore, the Nats did not NEED a second baseman.


Stroud said:

"Hitting home runs doesn't make you talented, especially when you make a boatload of errors at your given position and can't hit for average."

No shhhh! Put my quote in the context of what I was replying to. Misfit said something that was incorrect, so exactly what I wrote countered what he said perfectly. Hpow you're using it, is totally misleading.


Stroud said:

"No doubt Soriano would be awesome in that tiny Double A park they got in Boston, but with Mark Loretta at second, you're looking at a possible big year from him as well. That's just another log jam. That's piling one problem onto another problem."

I agree



Stroud said:

"Why exactly would the Nats trade Soriano for Matsui in any case whatsoever? I wouldn't mind seeing Soriano in NY again either, but if that's what the Mets are offering? Good luck. The Nats need an outfielder, and the Mets don't have many to spare. Something tells me Soriano will be playing short for the Nats until they can trade him midseason."

I never said or alluded to any potential deal between the Mets and Nats. I was just saying as a Mets fan...that I am so tired of Matsui's act, I'd take Sori over him any day. When Sori was with the Yanks, I'd wished the Mets had him then.


Stroud said:

"hey look! you didn't forget Chase! Here I was thinking that you're assumption that no other second baseman in the majors could compare to soriano based on numbers was because you didn't know who Chase Utley was, but apparently I was wrong. Silly me!"

Yep silly you! LOL
You obviously don't know me very well. If I'm going to defend my point(s), I take ALL info into account....I'm not one to only show one set of stats/info to make my argument look good. No need to do that.



Stroud said:

"What better reason? He's making more than some of the greatest players alive in other popular sports, what makes him so special that he deserves so much more? The MLB desperately needs a salary cap, and until it happens (if it ever does), the fans have a right to be upset about how much money the players are making and how it is affecting their attitudes. Don't kid yourself, we're seeing some of the most selfish players in all of Baseball history right now."

Stroud...you cannot REALLY be asking this question and believeing what you typed....how old are you? Next...

::shaking my head::


Stroud said:

"Ahh come on, don't be like that. If Loretta gets injured sometime this season, you know the Sox will probably trade for Soriano or someone else, but my point would be that if it happens, it's most likely only going to happen midseason."


You missed the boat again. I was listening to one of the Boston beat writers on the Home Plate channel during the week. The Bosox management are not sure if he can stay free from injury and are being very cautuious with Loretta at this point. Guess you didn't hear the genesis of the rumor....Soriano for Papelbon and at least one other minor leaguer. I doubt that will happen Papelbon has too much of an upside.


Stroud said:

"okay, now this comment threw me for a loop. We can all debate til' we're blue in the face over whether or not the age descrepency was purposeful or accidental, but that doesn't mean we're upset to the point of hating the player just based on it."

You don't know that. You may not be, but you cannot speak for everyone here...and how they think. You just can't. And if it's a 'mystery' as you say, why then are you and many others acting like it's ALL fact (read: Soriano is totally wrong?!?)

Holla!

[deeman11747]

Re: Soriano: Nats have 3 weeks to "fix it"

Because Guzman is in the 2nd year of a 4 year $26 million dollar contract and would be too expensive for a team like Washington to sit on the bench.

That philosophy has always killed me. Like last year with the Yankees:

"Hmm.. Jaret Wright is making $7 million with a crap ERA. Aaron Small hasnt lost in 12 starts but hes making only $400,000. Well we cant let a $7 million pitcher pitch out of the pen... so we'll take the crappy performances for us to feel like we're getting our money's worth."

It makes no sense when teams do this. So you made a terrible deal and now your not even at least making the best of the sitatuion by playing the better player?

I know this doesnt have anything to do with the thread at this point but you saying that sparked up this rant.

[Misfit]

Re: Soriano: Nats have 3 weeks to "fix it"

Who is Rod_Carew29?! Please, anyone, tell me why I should give a damn about this guy's opinions. Someone tell him his argument carries as much weight as Callista Flockheart and that his ramblings should not be dignified with any kind of rebuttle.

And I agree with deeman about the Guzman thing. I don't think Soriano is the answer at short (fans on the first baseline would have to be supplied with catcher's masks) but assuming he was, it would be stupid of them to keep Guzman at short because of his salary. Yeah it sucks to have a 7 million dollar player ride the bench, but you're not correcting the problem but ignoring it. The Yankees were stupid to put Wright in the rotation last year when they did considering he never pitched one good game for them when he was healthy.