How did David Ortiz get SO good!?

[SPTO]

OK I was thinking about this after the BoSox game last night and it just boggles my mind. I remember when he was on the Twins and he was to the best of my recollection an ok hitter who could be busted high and tight successfully all the time. He had the tools to be a very good hitter but he could never put it together.

Actually looking at Baseball Reference my recollection is a little off. He was showing signs of busting out but the Twins just gave up on him. In his last season he had 20 HRs and 75 RBI which I think is pretty good.

He goes to Boston and immediately he starts paying dividends and has become this larger then life figure. I just can't figure out how he got so good so fast. It's almost as if he flipped the switch and became a premiere hitter. The other thing is, like it or not, he's become the most clutch hitter in a very long time. What he's doing in Boston is very special IMO.

I guess Twins fans are kicking themselves for releasing him in '02 as Ortiz would be the perfect power source for a team that could really use one.

[Vince]

Re: How did David Ortiz get SO good!?

The Twins shouldn't be kicking themselves because he was an average DH at best. And he was there for a while and never really showed anything that would lead to belive he'd become a top 5 player like he is now.

Proctection from Manny is one of the reasons why he's so good.

[ILLCHILL]

Re: How did David Ortiz get SO good!?

Ron Jackson, 'Papa Jack', the hitting coach, has been the most underrated part of this team for the last 3 or 4 years. Its ridiculous how many players found themselves or resurected their career once the hit Boston. Accredit most of that to Papa Jack.

Other than that, Ortiz' jump was amazing. He was a good hitter in Minny with obvious weaknesses to one of the best hitters in the history of the most storied franchises in America. Even if you take away that clutchness, he's going to break Jimmie Foxx's 50 HR record for the Sox. Think about that, out of all the hitters the Sox have ever had, David Ortiz will most likely hit more in one season than any of them. His RBI are also going through the roof, and he has startling power to all fields. Manny/Ortiz/Pena the next couple years should be the best 3 consecutive hitters in the game over that time.

[GBrushTWood]

Re: How did David Ortiz get SO good!?

It's no secret that the Twins instructed Ortiz NOT to take massive cuts at the ball, but to rather punch at the ball and hit it the other way in an attempt to move runners over or play small ball. Ortiz has spokely many times regarding when he tried to drive the ball with power, the coaches would tell him to cut it out. This massively frustrated and pissed off Ortiz (he says they wanted him to "hit like a little bitch"). I suspect, though have no concrete evidence, that this was a concerted organizational Twins philosophy to ensure players didn't have monster power numbers (which can result in pricey contracts). It's either that or their baseball operations were/are brain-dead ********.
Of course, nobody on the planet thought Ortiz would turn into what he is today; the Red Sox merely thought his numbers and hitting style would be a cost effective fit for the 2003 Red Sox. In Feeding the Monster (by Seth Mnookin), I recall Bill James saying the Ortiz signing in late January 2003 received no more discussion or excitement than the signing of Ramiro Mendoza that week.

I happen to think Ortiz was always a very good hitter, it's just that he was in the worst possible organization at the time for his skill set. The Red Sox flat out got lucky with Ortiz. Everything about him just fit in at the right time.

[Vince]

Re: How did David Ortiz get SO good!?

I suspect, though have no concrete evidence, that this was a concerted organizational Twins philosophy to ensure players didn't have monster power numbers (which can result in pricey contracts)

That's hilarious if true.

[SPTO]

Re: How did David Ortiz get SO good!?

. I suspect, though have no concrete evidence, that this was a concerted organizational Twins philosophy to ensure players didn't have monster power numbers (which can result in pricey contracts). It's either that or their baseball operations were/are brain-dead ********.
.

Well it's a good thing that, if true, this philosophy is apparently over as Justin Morneau is having a pretty darn good season.

[skitch]

Re: How did David Ortiz get SO good!?

Manny Ramirez.

Who was protecting him in the Minnesota lineup?

Manny has established himself as one of the best true hitters in baseball, and scares the living hell out of opposing pitchers. With that kind of a player batting behind you, it'd be hard for an exceptional talent like Ortiz to put up monster numbers.

[mvb34]

Re: How did David Ortiz get SO good!?

Twins philosophy to ensure players didn't have monster power numbers (which can result in pricey contracts).

That so far from truth that not even funny.. The Twins have had a legit power in the system since Kent Hrbeck. Justin Morneau maybe next. David Ortiz was a bust in Minnesota can say why because the Dome is a hitters park

[bergie56]

Re: How did David Ortiz get SO good!?

David Ortiz had some of the ugliest at-bats when he was a Twin. He was also very injury prone. He played in an average of 88 games per season in just over 5 full seasons with the Twins. I am guessing that there is truth that the Twins belief that a batter should work on going the other way with pitches may have hampered Ortiz some, but the guy didn't show any signs that he would ever get it like he has now.

[MassNole]

Re: How did David Ortiz get SO good!?

Lets not forget the differences you have playing 81 games in Fenway compared to 81 games in the Metrodome. Ortiz has improved leaps and bounds from his Minnesota days, but when you factor in the Manny Ramirez and Fenway factors it is pretty clear why Ortiz suddenly blossomed.

[bergie56]

Re: How did David Ortiz get SO good!?

It's no secret that the Twins instructed Ortiz NOT to take massive cuts at the ball, but to rather punch at the ball and hit it the other way in an attempt to move runners over or play small ball. Ortiz has spokely many times regarding when he tried to drive the ball with power, the coaches would tell him to cut it out. This massively frustrated and pissed off Ortiz (he says they wanted him to "hit like a little bitch"). I suspect, though have no concrete evidence, that this was a concerted organizational Twins philosophy to ensure players didn't have monster power numbers (which can result in pricey contracts). It's either that or their baseball operations were/are brain-dead ********.
Of course, nobody on the planet thought Ortiz would turn into what he is today; the Red Sox merely thought his numbers and hitting style would be a cost effective fit for the 2003 Red Sox. In Feeding the Monster (by Seth Mnookin), I recall Bill James saying the Ortiz signing in late January 2003 received no more discussion or excitement than the signing of Ramiro Mendoza that week.

I happen to think Ortiz was always a very good hitter, it's just that he was in the worst possible organization at the time for his skill set. The Red Sox flat out got lucky with Ortiz. Everything about him just fit in at the right time.

You are pretty far off on some of your ideas in this post. The Twins GM Terry Ryan often admits that he just didn't see Ortiz improving much and that he made a large mistake. Also, the Twins have always done a good job re-signing the players that they wanted to keep.

[dieselboy]

Re: How did David Ortiz get SO good!?

Lets not forget the differences you have playing 81 games in Fenway compared to 81 games in the Metrodome. Ortiz has improved leaps and bounds from his Minnesota days, but when you factor in the Manny Ramirez and Fenway factors it is pretty clear why Ortiz suddenly blossomed.

Ortiz has more HRs on the road since joining the Red Sox...

[MassNole]

Re: How did David Ortiz get SO good!?

Ortiz has more HRs on the road since joining the Red Sox...

I'd still rather play 81 games in Fenway than the Metrodome.

[TheGenius]

Re: How did David Ortiz get SO good!?

Lets not forget the differences you have playing 81 games in Fenway compared to 81 games in the Metrodome. Ortiz has improved leaps and bounds from his Minnesota days, but when you factor in the Manny Ramirez and Fenway factors it is pretty clear why Ortiz suddenly blossomed.

Fenway has given up the least amount of homers per game in the majors this year. Yeah, it's got a short porch right down the right field line and the monster is in left. But to right center it's deep and the triangle in center is riciculous.

I highly doubt park factors made much of a difference in this scenario.

[Misfit]

Re: How did David Ortiz get SO good!?

You are pretty far off on some of your ideas in this post. The Twins GM Terry Ryan often admits that he just didn't see Ortiz improving much and that he made a large mistake. Also, the Twins have always done a good job re-signing the players that they wanted to keep.

That was straight from Ortiz's mouth, GBrush did not just pull that out of thin air.

Manny helps, but he's not the sole reason for the success Ortiz has had. Up until last season, and for part of last season, Ortiz hit behind Manny. This is the first full season for the Ortiz 3rd and Manny 4th combo.

The guy is just a good hitter and simply got better. I think staying healthy has helped since it allowed him to get consistent at-bats and gave him a chance to close up his holes.