-
“Nobody in the history of the game tried what I just tried. We’re talking about on the biggest stage, in New York, playing out of position and asked to hit fourth for the New York Yankees. I mean, that’s never been done.” - Sheffield on Sheffield -
Re: AL MVP
Since the media is voting, I truly believe Ortiz will win it.
If I were voting I'd give Justin Morneau the nod."It may well be that we spectators, who are not divinely gifted as athletes, are the only ones able to truly see, articulate and animate the experience of the gift we are denied. And that those who receive and act out the gift of athletic genius must, perforce, be blind and dumb about it -- and not because blindness and dumbness are the price of the gift, but because they are its essence." - David Foster Wallace
"You'll not find more penny-wise/pound-foolish behavior than in Major League Baseball." - Rob NeyerComment
-
Re: AL MVP
As of August 28th
Jeter's VORP is 61.3
The next closest Yankee is Giambi at 46.9
Though Giambi is actually 21st in the majors, that's almost a 15 point difference.
(Just so you know the Yankees players do round in in good spots after Giambi).
One could argue that Jeter is almost irreplacable for the Yankees."It may well be that we spectators, who are not divinely gifted as athletes, are the only ones able to truly see, articulate and animate the experience of the gift we are denied. And that those who receive and act out the gift of athletic genius must, perforce, be blind and dumb about it -- and not because blindness and dumbness are the price of the gift, but because they are its essence." - David Foster Wallace
"You'll not find more penny-wise/pound-foolish behavior than in Major League Baseball." - Rob NeyerComment
-
Re: AL MVP
They could just slide ARod over to short, where he's better defensively and every year but this year swings a better bat. Though even this year he provides more power. The incredible amount of depth the Yankees have in their lineup basically works against them here.Comment
-
Re: AL MVP
As much as I hate to give it to him, I'd say Jeter no doubt.18-1 hell of a season regardlessComment
-
Re: AL MVP
Morneau or DyeComment
-
Re: AL MVP
Jeter will win it because of the so called "intangibles" crap.
Travis Hafner deserves the award because I do not buy into the whole idea that an MVP has to be on a winning team. MVP, an individual award, should not be influenced by the fact the player's surrounding parts are excellent. It is not Hafner's fault that he plays on the Indians and not the extremely talented Yankees. If you switch Hafner and Jeter, the Yankees would have the same, perhaps even better, record as they do with Jeter.
Hafner destroys the competition statistically but unfortunately he has no chance of winning because of the fact that the Indians are out of the playoff chase. Hafner has such a huge lead in VORP that despite not playing defense, he still is far more valuable than any other player in both leagues. He even has an 11 point lead over Miguel Carbera who is 2nd in the bigs in VORP.Comment
-
Re: AL MVP
Why is this crap? Just because one can't quantify a trait doesn't make it necessarily less valuable than something that is quantifiable. All an intangible means, by definition is that it's tough (or impossible) to quantify. It is well within your rights to choose to ignore intangibles because you can't get a firm grasp around it. At the same time, it is well within my rights to think you are a foolish child who chooses to ignore traits that can distinguish between good and great players. Bill James rocks.
BTW, in the case of Jeter, he is currently 5th in the majors in VORP as of 8/31. I think Jeter should and will win it. Hafner is putting up great offensive numbers, yes, but he's doing it on a team who's games haven't meant a thing for 4 months running now, AND he's a DH. Those are 2 huge strikes against him. Jeter is doing it on a division winner AND plays the toughest defensive position. Point Jeter.Comment
-
Re: AL MVP
To double post on that (of course those that don't know me will think I'm only saying this because I'm a Yankee fan, but oh well...)
Perhaps it can be said that Jeter's so-called "intangibles" (And I dislike the whole thing too. Jeter is a very good player, but he is NOT as great as people make him to be) are actually being measured this year.
I posted it in the previous page and now TWood has done the same. Jeter's VORP is amongst the ML leaders and the next closest Yankee is Giambi. Last time I checked he was 21st in the league and 15 points behind Jeter in VORP.
If Jeter never proved his worth to his team statistically, then he's doing it this year.
As for Ortiz and Manny. They are neck-to-neck in VORP."It may well be that we spectators, who are not divinely gifted as athletes, are the only ones able to truly see, articulate and animate the experience of the gift we are denied. And that those who receive and act out the gift of athletic genius must, perforce, be blind and dumb about it -- and not because blindness and dumbness are the price of the gift, but because they are its essence." - David Foster Wallace
"You'll not find more penny-wise/pound-foolish behavior than in Major League Baseball." - Rob NeyerComment
-
Re: AL MVP
What is VORP exactly?Originally posted by Jay BilasComment
-
Re: AL MVP
From Baseball Prospectus:
In other words, VORP measures how much better a player is contributing to his team at his position vs. a replacement player at the position. Of course, it does not take into account how good one performs defensively at said position. Thus, it is mainly a measurement of offensive production in a season. In addition, it is not at all predictive of future trends.Value Over Replacement Player. The number of runs contributed beyond what a replacement-level player at the same position would contribute if given the same percentage of team plate appearances. VORP scores do not consider the quality of a player's defense.Last edited by GBrushTWood; 08-31-2006, 12:45 PM.Comment
-
Re: AL MVP
Something that has bugged me for a while now is: How the hell did Ortiz not win it last year while a year before ARod won an MVP award on the last place Rangers?
It just goes to show that the award doesn't really mean anything.
Jeter is having a good year, but I think is lack of power is a big strike against him.
And maybe it's just because of who I root for etc. But I don't really see Jeter as a leader of the Yankees. I know the media refers to him as the captain, but does anyone really see him ponying up the troops with guys like Abreu, Sheffield, ARod, Damon etc.?“Nobody in the history of the game tried what I just tried. We’re talking about on the biggest stage, in New York, playing out of position and asked to hit fourth for the New York Yankees. I mean, that’s never been done.” - Sheffield on SheffieldComment
-
Re: AL MVP
As I understand it, while it doesn't take defense into account, VORP is still comparing a player to other players at his position.
It's important to keep this in mind when comparing players at different positions, like Jeter and Giambi above. Theoretically, Jeter's VORP could be so much higher simply because a replacement level 1B is a much better hitter than the replacement SS.Comment
Comment