Prized pitcher Matsuzaka given OK to pitch in MLB

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  • CWood2
    TNA & WWE thanks you
    • May 2004
    • 4356

    #256
    Re: Prized pitcher Matsuzaka given OK to pitch in MLB

    Originally posted by AI_Franchise
    Geez, You keep missing the point - RED SOX OFFERED 50 MILLION JUST TO TALK TO HIM! At 7-8 mill per year, they would have to settle for at least 7 years to even match what they gave Seibu Lions....Did someone forget to tell the Red Sox and their fans, good talent costs money?
    Pretty sure we've issued the second largest contract in major league history, so we know how to spend...see payroll for further evidence.

    Second, what we paid Seibu was a business investment based more on projected marketing return than Daisuke's talent. What we pay him now that we've won the bidding is what he's worth as a baseball player, period... one with incredible talent, but zero major league experience (aka a prospect, which is why you'll see him in BA's handbook). At the same age, Josh Beckett has headlined a world series rotation and got paid pretty well less than 12 months ago. As far as Gil Meche, did it occur to people that the Kansas City Royals have to pay a little more for players to go there? I'll exceed the Contreras deal and blame the market, but let's not bring up ethics in a conversation with Scott Boras in it. That'd be like talking about the Nobel Peace Prize and casually referring to Sadam. (yes, im exaggerating )

    Comment

    • AI_Franchise
      Banned
      • Nov 2002
      • 2146

      #257
      Re: Prized pitcher Matsuzaka given OK to pitch in MLB

      Originally posted by CWood2

      Second, what we paid Seibu was a business investment based more on projected marketing return than Daisuke's talent. What we pay him now that we've won the bidding is what he's worth as a baseball player, period...
      I don't blame you for defending RS stance, but face it you're screwed....and please I don't buy that for a second.
      You offered roughly 20 mill more than the next team in order to secure him. The projected marketing and all that crap comes second...your greediness seems to be catching up to you guys.

      Comment

      • Misfit
        All Star
        • Mar 2003
        • 5766

        #258
        Re: Prized pitcher Matsuzaka given OK to pitch in MLB

        Originally posted by AI_Franchise
        I don't blame you for defending RS stance, but face it you're screwed....and please I don't buy that for a second.
        You offered roughly 20 mill more than the next team in order to secure him. The projected marketing and all that crap comes second...your greediness seems to be catching up to you guys.
        I don't see where greed comes into play for the Red Sox. They've already invested an unprecedented amount of money in the player. Before any of the signings, no one thought it would take 15+ million a year to lock this guy up. The other problem is, since Boras knows his client will be under the control of the Sox for 6 years before he's a free agent, he isn't willing to settle for anything less than 15 per year for 6 years. He doesn't want to settle for fewer years in case the player doesn't perform at a high level because then he gets less money. He hasn't shown a willingness to compromise in the least bit and he's started throwing around the notion that his guy should be paid closer to 20 million and some question whether or not Boras has any intention of signing at all. Forget the posting fee, how can you fault any team with refusing to pay an unproven player as much as 190 million?

        What seems fair, to me, would be for both sides to agree to a short-term deal worth between 12-15 million a year with various incentives and what-not to make the deal more lucrative should Matsuzaka perform well. Say 3 years and 45 million, but with 3 option years for 15+ per. If Matsuzaka proves his worth, he'll get paid accordingly and if he doesn't the contract could allow him to become a free agent after the three year duration but also gives the Red Sox control over where he goes should he prove worth the investment. Of course, what makes perfect sense to someone outside of these negotiations isn't always easily conveyed to those within them. Boras wouldn't want a deal like that because if Matsuzaka flops he doesn't care, as long as he's locked up with a lucrative deal he still gets paid.

        Comment

        • CWood2
          TNA & WWE thanks you
          • May 2004
          • 4356

          #259
          Re: Prized pitcher Matsuzaka given OK to pitch in MLB

          Originally posted by AI_Franchise
          I don't blame you for defending RS stance, but face it you're screwed....and please I don't buy that for a second.
          You offered roughly 20 mill more than the next team in order to secure him. The projected marketing and all that crap comes second...your greediness seems to be catching up to you guys.
          Again, the issue that's currently up for debate with Boras is not how much we posted...it's how much his client is worth. You're clustering the two things together when they were different negotiations with different parties.

          So are we greedy because we think Boras is asking for too much or because we posted $51.1M? Surprise me and don't say both.

          Comment

          • Misfit
            All Star
            • Mar 2003
            • 5766

            #260
            Re: Prized pitcher Matsuzaka given OK to pitch in MLB

            For those searching for some optimism:

            http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hotsto...t&lid=tab3pos2

            Comment

            • AI_Franchise
              Banned
              • Nov 2002
              • 2146

              #261
              Re: Prized pitcher Matsuzaka given OK to pitch in MLB

              Greediness would apply best in this context in the form of you should have expected this not to be easy, but yet think that **** is sweet. Boras will uncharacteristically manage to layout a contract that's in the favor of you guys...haha

              Giving up 51 million sure didn't help your cause either. I know you think it has no relevance here, but you couldn't be more wrong...it's what's holding up the talks.

              Should I mention Matsuzaka wanted to play for the Yankees...yet you had to one-up them...seems to me Boras wants to 1-up you guys.

              Comment

              • Stu
                All Star
                • Jun 2004
                • 7924

                #262
                Re: Prized pitcher Matsuzaka given OK to pitch in MLB

                Originally posted by AI_Franchise
                Geez, You keep missing the point - RED SOX OFFERED 50 MILLION JUST TO TALK TO HIM! At 7-8 mill per year, they would have to settle for at least 7 years to even match what they gave Seibu Lions....Did someone forget to tell the Red Sox and their fans, good talent costs money?
                We're talking about different things then. My comment was directed at you saying Selig would award him to the next highest bidder.
                Sim Gaming Network

                Comment

                • AI_Franchise
                  Banned
                  • Nov 2002
                  • 2146

                  #263
                  Re: Prized pitcher Matsuzaka given OK to pitch in MLB

                  Originally posted by camulos
                  We're talking about different things then. My comment was directed at you saying Selig would award him to the next highest bidder.
                  In that case, I should tell you that I didn't make that up. I honestly read it on ESPN's website. I know many suggested that's what should be done, so I guess Bud is in agreement. I tried searching for the article, couldn't find it, but I got this from the same article.

                  "The deal that got the most attention within the industry was Atlanta's acquisition of Rafael Soriano from Seattle for Horacio Ramirez. "That was a great John Schuerholz deal," said one general manager. "Unbelievable." "

                  This is what I posted in the Rafael Soriano for Horacio Ramirez thread.

                  Comment

                  • Stu
                    All Star
                    • Jun 2004
                    • 7924

                    #264
                    Re: Prized pitcher Matsuzaka given OK to pitch in MLB

                    Originally posted by AI_Franchise
                    In that case, I should tell you that I didn't make that up. I honestly read it on ESPN's website. I know many suggested that's what should be done, so I guess Bud is in agreement. I tried searching for the article, couldn't find it, but I got this from the same article.
                    I'm sorry but it's not happening. It completely opens the door for Boras to manipulate the posting process. The only way that would happen is if the Red Sox didn't even make an offer.
                    Sim Gaming Network

                    Comment

                    • AI_Franchise
                      Banned
                      • Nov 2002
                      • 2146

                      #265
                      Re: Prized pitcher Matsuzaka given OK to pitch in MLB

                      Originally posted by camulos
                      I'm sorry but it's not happening. It completely opens the door for Boras to manipulate the posting process. The only way that would happen is if the Red Sox didn't even make an offer.
                      Boy, would I love to see Selig's plan come to fruition. Subsequently, he bans Red Sox from making any FA moves, sort of like NCAA with their program suspensions. I would have liked to see him also ban them from playoff competition, but the Idiots also known as the Red Sox manage to do that without Selig's help. BUZ-ZING!

                      No, but seriously, I would love to find the article. If anyone knows exactly what I'm talking about, please feel free to aid me, yes even Red Sox fans.

                      Comment

                      • CWood2
                        TNA & WWE thanks you
                        • May 2004
                        • 4356

                        #266
                        Re: Prized pitcher Matsuzaka given OK to pitch in MLB

                        Originally posted by AI_Franchise
                        Greediness would apply best in this context in the form of you should have expected this not to be easy, but yet think that **** is sweet. Boras will uncharacteristically manage to layout a contract that's in the favor of you guys...haha

                        Giving up 51 million sure didn't help your cause either. I know you think it has no relevance here, but you couldn't be more wrong...it's what's holding up the talks.

                        Should I mention Matsuzaka wanted to play for the Yankees...yet you had to one-up them...seems to me Boras wants to 1-up you guys.
                        We deal with Boras often...days earlier signing JD Drew to a 5 year deal. Considering his injury history and the fact that he got a 5 year deal, plus our near collapse with Varitek if not for him stepping in and a record contract for a late 1st rounder in Craig Hansen... we, more than many teams, know that dealing with Boras is not going to be easy.

                        To your point, Boras is using the bid amount in an attempt to gain leverage if Daisuke went back, just as he's doing by refusing to make a counter offer and playing hard to get. That's what he does. My point, however, is that we can't be held hostage. And truthfully, if you wanted to bring up tampering charges in the Drew situation, or even the fact that Theo and Co. may have been thrown for a loop when Seibu was disallowed from kicking back some of the bid... frankly, I'm not sure I could defend either one given the lack of information and my own suspicion.

                        But we're talking about a player contract. And even if Matsuzaka could demand that $51M in two years, which is Boras's escape clause, he needs to do what's best for his client. I think this quote sums it up well...from the article linked by Misfit.

                        "Although Boras might think nothing of causing an international incident of these proportions, Matsuzaka is unlikely to be a party to it.

                        Comment

                        • NYJets
                          Hall Of Fame
                          • Jul 2002
                          • 18637

                          #267
                          Re: Prized pitcher Matsuzaka given OK to pitch in MLB

                          The only way he could do that is if a team clearly bid just to stop everyone else from getting him, with no interest in signing him.

                          Red Sox have shown they want him, so that's not going to happen.
                          Originally posted by Jay Bilas
                          The question isn't whether UConn belongs with the elites, but over the last 20 years, whether the rest of the college basketball elite belongs with UConn

                          Comment

                          • AI_Franchise
                            Banned
                            • Nov 2002
                            • 2146

                            #268
                            Re: Prized pitcher Matsuzaka given OK to pitch in MLB

                            Boras - If Zito can get close to 20 mill coming to the Mets, surely my great pitcher deserves 15 mill.
                            Larry Luchino & Theo Epstein - WTF are you talking about? Zito is not yet signed.
                            Boras - Yeah, but he still wants 20 million per year....so I will say this one last time, SHOW ME THE MONEY!

                            As a Yankees fan , I'm loving this! Couldn't have happened to a better club...3 days left and counting.
                            Last edited by AI_Franchise; 12-11-2006, 09:17 PM.

                            Comment

                            • AI_Franchise
                              Banned
                              • Nov 2002
                              • 2146

                              #269
                              Re: Prized pitcher Matsuzaka given OK to pitch in MLB

                              Apparently it wasn't in the same article as the snippet that I quoted, so where the hell did I read it from? As it stands right now, it seems like I made that up, so Selig will not act out? Rats. O well, here's the article anyways, has some good points and notes in general
                              http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?id=2692259

                              • One club executive, marveling at Boras' work, said, "He's got 85 people working for him. That's more than most organizations."

                              Comment

                              • CMH
                                Making you famous
                                • Oct 2002
                                • 26203

                                #270
                                Re: Prized pitcher Matsuzaka given OK to pitch in MLB

                                Originally posted by Misfit
                                What seems fair, to me, would be for both sides to agree to a short-term deal worth between 12-15 million a year with various incentives and what-not to make the deal more lucrative should Matsuzaka perform well. Say 3 years and 45 million, but with 3 option years for 15+ per. If Matsuzaka proves his worth, he'll get paid accordingly and if he doesn't the contract could allow him to become a free agent after the three year duration but also gives the Red Sox control over where he goes should he prove worth the investment. Of course, what makes perfect sense to someone outside of these negotiations isn't always easily conveyed to those within them. Boras wouldn't want a deal like that because if Matsuzaka flops he doesn't care, as long as he's locked up with a lucrative deal he still gets paid.
                                That makes a lot of sense.

                                Unfortunately, Red Sox mgmt feels otherwise. They only want to offer 7-8 million a year. Boras is "saying" his client deserves double that.

                                There's a huge gap between their opinions. Huge gaps like that are very, very hard to fill.
                                "It may well be that we spectators, who are not divinely gifted as athletes, are the only ones able to truly see, articulate and animate the experience of the gift we are denied. And that those who receive and act out the gift of athletic genius must, perforce, be blind and dumb about it -- and not because blindness and dumbness are the price of the gift, but because they are its essence." - David Foster Wallace

                                "You'll not find more penny-wise/pound-foolish behavior than in Major League Baseball." - Rob Neyer

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