Congrats to Gwynn and Ripken!

[TheMatrix31]

Re: Congrats to Gwynn and Ripken!

Congrats to both.

I think Ripken is slightly overrated. But there's no questioning what he did for the game, and that he deserves to go.

Gwynn is one of the best hitters I've ever seen.

I agree on both points. Gwynn was just unbelievable in every way.

Casey, don't bring up that Game 7 hurt, please!

[ExtremeGamer]

Re: Congrats to Gwynn and Ripken!

I wouldn't not vote for him because of the drugs. I would not vote for him because of his very low career hit total, the fact that the vast majority of his hits were home runs, and his pedestrian career batting average. It would be like voting Dave Kingman into the Hall, under the specter of drug use no less. Not gonna happen.

And I hate the argument that certain milestones guarantee you a free pass into the HOF, like 500 HRs. McGwire hit 583 HRs, but he only had 1626 career hits. Compare that to Andre Dawson, who hit 483 non-steroid-enhanced HRs, batted .016 higher for his career, and had over 1000 more hits. Sure Dawson played 5 years longer, but staying good for longer is part of what makes a player great too. And oh by the way, Dawson won 8 Gold Gloves instead of being a rock at 1B for his entire career.

If Dawson doesn't get in, there's no way in hell McGwire should get in.

McGwire won a gold glove! Ok, only 1, but he did win one! LOL

[WazzuRC]

Re: Congrats to Gwynn and Ripken!

Someone said Gwynn said something somewhat controversial when he was talking to the media today...something like "I'm sweating like a ..." but missed what he said. Anybody know what that was?

Anyway, Tony Gwynn is my favorite player of all-time so I'm glad to see him get the recognition that he deserves.

[roadman]

Re: Congrats to Gwynn and Ripken!

I wouldn't not vote for him because of the drugs. I would not vote for him because of his very low career hit total, the fact that the vast majority of his hits were home runs, and his pedestrian career batting average. It would be like voting Dave Kingman into the Hall, under the specter of drug use no less. Not gonna happen.

And I hate the argument that certain milestones guarantee you a free pass into the HOF, like 500 HRs. McGwire hit 583 HRs, but he only had 1626 career hits. Compare that to Andre Dawson, who hit 483 non-steroid-enhanced HRs, batted .016 higher for his career, and had over 1000 more hits. Sure Dawson played 5 years longer, but staying good for longer is part of what makes a player great too. And oh by the way, Dawson won 8 Gold Gloves instead of being a rock at 1B for his entire career.

If Dawson doesn't get in, there's no way in hell McGwire should get in.

Unfortunately, the baseball writers sets the milestones, not MLB. I don't think it's fair Dawson isn't in either, loved to watch that guy play. However, I don't think you can dismiss the offensive stats of McGwire. He was on base .394 to Dawson's .323 percent, Dawson's OPS+ was 116, McGwire's was 163. Dawson had 90 more K's with 4000 more ab's, while McGwire seemed to walk a lot more than Dawson as well. McGwire had 100 pts higher slugging percentage than Dawson did as well.

Those offensive numbers are hard to ignore for McGwire. If Gaylord Perry is in the hall, McGwire one day should as well. Are the writers going to just guess which players used steroids and which players didn't? Sounds very random to me.

[madscientist]

Re: Congrats to Gwynn and Ripken!

I have to say I am sick about the way the induction to Cooperstown is handled. There were a couple of people that did not even vote because they think no one deserves to be unanimously voted in. The media should not be voting on the HOF. The players and managers should vote, and they should be the only vote. Mark Mcgwire has not been found guilty of anything, yet he has been ostracized by the media as the first casualty of the "steroid era." The voting process stinks, and when the HOF says Jim Rice Bert Bye, Jim Morris, Shoeless Joe Jackson, and Pete Rose do not belong then I have to say the system is broken.

[AI_Franchise]

Re: Congrats to Gwynn and Ripken!

This year, he got 6 votes...somehow.

I guess he could hit the baseball far. That's something, right?

[rubisco43]

Re: Congrats to Gwynn and Ripken!

I'm a very defensive homer.. .please explain how ripken was overrated?

[AI_Franchise]

Re: Congrats to Gwynn and Ripken!

I'm a very defensive homer.. .please explain how ripken was overrated?

I remember hearing one...The streak was somewhat deceiving? He played during streaks where he was just poor. Almost to the point of being detrimental to the O's.

[bkrich83]

Re: Congrats to Gwynn and Ripken!

Someone said Gwynn said something somewhat controversial when he was talking to the media today...something like "I'm sweating like a ..." but missed what he said. Anybody know what that was?

Anyway, Tony Gwynn is my favorite player of all-time so I'm glad to see him get the recognition that he deserves.

It was hot here today. They were in the stadium, and he said that he was "Sweating like a slave up here".

[NYJets]

Re: Congrats to Gwynn and Ripken!

I'm a very defensive homer.. .please explain how ripken was overrated?

Well look at his stats.

.276 career average
.340 OBP

He played 21 seasons.
3 seasons with 100+ runs.
2 seasons with 200 hits
1 season with 30 homeruns
4 seasons with 100 RBI's
5 seasons with .300 average

He didn't steal bases. He was a good defender, but he wasn't Omar Vizquel.

He was a very good player, with a streak. And I know the streak is a great accomplishment and it did a lot to save baseball, but does it really make him a great player? I don't know, it shows he stayed healthy, but I don't think it helps your team much more than a player who plays 150 games a year.

He was a consistent, good player. But there were only a few years in his career where I thought he was one of the elite players in the game imo.

I think there's no doubt he's a hall of famer, but I heard today that he got the 3rd highest percentage of the vote ever? Not sure why that is. And I just think he has a reputation of being better than he was.

[rubisco43]

Re: Congrats to Gwynn and Ripken!

I remember hearing one...The streak was somewhat deceiving? He played during streaks where he was just poor. Almost to the point of being detrimental to the O's.

I see your point. There was talk even in baltimore about how Rip should just sit down b/c the focal point was on the streak and no longer on the team. But can you fault someone for wanting to play everyday?

[rubisco43]

Re: Congrats to Gwynn and Ripken!

Well look at his stats.

.276 career average
.340 OBP

He played 21 seasons.
3 seasons with 100+ runs.
2 seasons with 200 hits
1 season with 30 homeruns
4 seasons with 100 RBI's
5 seasons with .300 average

He didn't steal bases. He was a good defender, but he wasn't Omar Vizquel.

He was a very good player, with a streak. And I know the streak is a great accomplishment and it did a lot to save baseball, but does it really make him a great player? I don't know, it shows he stayed healthy, but I don't think it helps your team much more than a player who plays 150 games a year.

He was a consistent, good player. But there were only a few years in his career where I thought he was one of the elite players in the game imo.

I think there's no doubt he's a hall of famer, but I heard today that he got the 3rd highest percentage of the vote ever? Not sure why that is. And I just think he has a reputation of being better than he was.

Yet

3001 games played
3184 hits
2 time MVP
Rookie of the year
8 time silver slugger at SS
most comparable player at the end of his career was Yaz
umteen all-star appearances
considered to be the pioneer of the power hitting shortstop
I don't think him not stealing bases is a detriment to being inducted into the HOF

I think everyone thinks of the streak with Rip. But even without the streak, he's a HOFer in my opinion.

But I do see everyone's point.... but it's falling on deaf ears here

[daflyboys]

Re: Congrats to Gwynn and Ripken!

I can not believe that Gywnn and Ripken got that much of the voting because I really thought this would be the year for Gossage to get in...but, he just missed...with 71.2 %

You mean you can't believe two of THE best players over the last 30 years got that much of the vote?

I can't believe some writers DIDN'T vote for them!

[bkrich83]

Re: Congrats to Gwynn and Ripken!

Some Tony Gwynn facts for his 20 years of play.

Lowest batting average was .309
Won 8 Batting Titles
15 time All-Star
3,141 hits
Lifetime .338 hitter
In 9,288 at bats struck out just 434 times
5 seasons with over 200 hits. Also finished with 197 Twice
5 Gold Gloves
7 Silver Slugger awards
543 career doubles (Season High: 49)
319 Career Stolen bases (Season High: 56)

[Scottdau]

Re: Congrats to Gwynn and Ripken!

Some Tony Gwynn facts for his 20 years of play.

Lowest batting average was .309
Won 8 Batting Titles
15 time All-Star
3,141 hits
Lifetime .338 hitter
In 9,288 at bats struck out just 434 times
5 seasons with over 200 hits. Also finished with 197 Twice
5 Gold Gloves
7 Silver Slugger awards
543 career doubles (Season High: 49)
319 Career Stolen bases (Season High: 56)

And one of the greatest pure hitters ever! Congrats Tony you deserve it.