Cliff Floyd vs Jacque Jones

[fugazi]

Why are the Cubs so keen on dumping Jacque Jones and getting Cliff Floyd????
Set aside even that we have a couple of kids that "might" be ready. What is Floyd really going to bring in? I like his plate discipline, but the workrate is awful. I know that neither are top tier OFers, but I think the plate discipline incentive does not even come close to outweighing the defense, durability, and fire(that Jones seemd to show last year). And he's a bit younger.

Jacque Jones

147 G/season, 25.5 HR/Season, .833 OPS in 06 21AB/HR
517+ ABs in 6 of last 7 seasons ('01 475) Good Defense, and carried team offensively at times last year, several big moments.

Cliff Floyd
93 G/Season over the past 5, and that includes 2 140+ seasons. Needs about 19 ABs for every HR. Less than 400 ABs in 3 of last 4. Granted: Higher OPS, etc, attributable to better plate discipline. BUT......isn't he in a wheelchair? Not literally, but every time I see him run i cringe. I love Andre Dawson, but I don't need another stilt-legged creaky OFer.

Really, no offense to the Hawk...I grew up on him, Ryno, Dunston, and Salazar...you know, Luis Salazar...Jody Davis...Doug Dascenzo

[rsox]

Re: Cliff Floyd vs Jacque Jones

Basically the Cubs are trying to unload Jones (who is signed for 2 more years) to open up a spot for future CF Felix Pie, Cliff Floyd is just a stop-gap. The Cubs would like Pie to spend a little more time in the minors but the team believes he should be ready by the 2008 season. Floyd would only be signed for 1 year and would replace Jones' lefty bat in the lineup.

[dmoore]

Re: Cliff Floyd vs Jacque Jones

Jones is not a good defender, at least not what he used to be. His arm is horrible. He might have more range than Floyd, but he's not going to help out your pitching staff. I don't like Jones offensively either. He had one real hot streak and it came when we were already out of it, not when it actually mattered. I don't think Jones or Floyd are what we should go into the season with at CF. I'd much rather have Pie learn on the job, or pursue other options through trades. Really, we just need a guy to not hurt us there for a year until Pie's ready, though giving him a full season in AAA might be a luxury.

[dalnet22]

Re: Cliff Floyd vs Jacque Jones

Jones also came to play for Dusty and is now a crank ***.

[BigRed]

Re: Cliff Floyd vs Jacque Jones

Jones also came to play for Dusty and is now a crank ***.

Yup. That's the main reason. Jones was so bent out of shape the Cubs decided NOT to renew Dusty's contract, that he went off and requested to be traded.

[rsox]

Re: Cliff Floyd vs Jacque Jones

Jones is not a good defender, at least not what he used to be. His arm is horrible. He might have more range than Floyd, but he's not going to help out your pitching staff. I don't like Jones offensively either. He had one real hot streak and it came when we were already out of it, not when it actually mattered. I don't think Jones or Floyd are what we should go into the season with at CF. I'd much rather have Pie learn on the job, or pursue other options through trades. Really, we just need a guy to not hurt us there for a year until Pie's ready, though giving him a full season in AAA might be a luxury.

Soriano would play CF, Murton would move to RF and Floyd would play LF.

Considering that the Cubs are also interested in Darin Erstad and Steve Finley as possible replacements for Jones in the OF i think i would rather keep Jones or let Angel Pagan play CF (or LF, whichever) for this season.

[Macar91]

Re: Cliff Floyd vs Jacque Jones

Soriano would play CF, Murton would move to RF and Floyd would play LF.

Considering that the Cubs are also interested in Darin Erstad and Steve Finley as possible replacements for Jones in the OF i think i would rather keep Jones or let Angel Pagan play CF (or LF, whichever) for this season.

Actually, Len Kasper and Bob Brenly said during an interview that Soriano will likely play RF with Jones in CF and Murton in LF. If they trade Jones and sign Floyd, Floyd and Murton would likely platoon in LF and the Cubs would try to sign a guy like Erstad or someone similar to compete with Pie during ST for the starting CF job.

[funky_chicken]

Re: Cliff Floyd vs Jacque Jones

Being a Cubs fan I think they both suck but if I had to choose between them I would take Jones. Floyd is just to injury prone the past few seasons. Jones started off slow last year but ended up having a pretty good year.

[snepp]

Re: Cliff Floyd vs Jacque Jones

Jones abuses righty pitching. He's the perfect platoon player, assuming you've got a manager that's bright enough to realize he's worthless against southpaws.

[Macar91]

Re: Cliff Floyd vs Jacque Jones

Well, Floyd to the Cubs is almost reality.

Cubs and Floyd Near Agreement

[Macar91]

Re: Cliff Floyd vs Jacque Jones

Also, Piniella has changed his tune as to where he will put Soriano. I'll eat crow on this one.

Soriano to Play CF?

It's a bad idea, IMO. One of the things Soriano said when he signed is that he wanted a set everyday position.
If they were to put him in CF, He'd have to move to RF next year anyway with Pie coming up.

[chippered]

Re: Cliff Floyd vs Jacque Jones

Also, Piniella has changed his tune as to where he will put Soriano. I'll eat crow on this one.

Soriano to Play CF?

It's a bad idea, IMO. One of the things Soriano said when he signed is that he wanted a set everyday position.
If they were to put him in CF, He'd have to move to RF next year anyway with Pie coming up.

Actually, it was Soriano that said he would be willing to play center. He knows about Pie, so he knows it would only be for a year or so. I think it would work out pretty well. Great arm, good range. Once acclimated to the outfield last year, Soriano did really well, in fact leading leftfielders in outfield assists.

[fugazi]

Re: Cliff Floyd vs Jacque Jones

playing CF will be easire than playing in the corner OF, as the jump is more important than the read...in the corners balls tail and slice, while in center, they come at you more directly..

I had forgotten about Jones wanting out, thanks for reminding me...but I still think Cliff Floyd is as worthless a signing as Burnitz was two years ago, and probably worse because he will cost more and play less...

too injury prone does not even begin to cover it.

[dalnet22]

Re: Cliff Floyd vs Jacque Jones

playing CF will be easire than playing in the corner OF, as the jump is more important than the read...in the corners balls tail and slice, while in center, they come at you more directly..

I had forgotten about Jones wanting out, thanks for reminding me...but I still think Cliff Floyd is as worthless a signing as Burnitz was two years ago, and probably worse because he will cost more and play less...

too injury prone does not even begin to cover it.

Yeah, but at least Floyd looks nice in Cubbie blue. Burnitz looked like an oaf.

[dmoore]

Re: Cliff Floyd vs Jacque Jones

I'm getting the impression that Floyd will be more of a bench player when we sign him, and I don't think I can argue against that at all. Our bench is pretty weak, and at least now we have a decent bat to come off the bench.