Pirates fire manager Jim Tracy

**SPTO** · 10-05-2007, 12:14 PM

Re: Pirates fire manager Jim Tracy

Yeah that's the big knock about competing with a 40-50 mil budget. Even if the Pirates get a great scouting GM and all that it's still going to take at least 5 years before the minor leagues are up to par with some of the better minor league operations for other teams.

I know everyone touts Billy Beane and other guys with doing that so well but trust me it takes a lot more luck then skill to stockpile a minor league system.

**ExtremeGamer** · 10-05-2007, 12:17 PM

Re: Pirates fire manager Jim Tracy

You're going to be very happy with Neal Huntington as your GM though. He's been a part of building what we have in Cleveland for years now. Glad to see him get the shot as a GM. If he has anything to do with it, you'll have a team in 3-5 years that will compete on a regular basis.

**eXperiment63** · 10-05-2007, 12:20 PM

Re: Pirates fire manager Jim Tracy

Originally posted by mjb2124

However, he's already stated that he think the Pirates can compete with a 40-50 MIL payroll.

I don't believe he means compete for the WS with that payroll. But being competitive with $50M? Completely possible. If your team becomes competitive and looks to needs a little more to get over that next hump, I have to believe he will approve of it. Until maybe he is putting 70-80M/year into them.

It all depends on fan support. He has done so much to alienate the fans recently that the base is small. He can't just go out and spend $80M, he would lose a ton of money.

**ExtremeGamer** · 10-05-2007, 12:21 PM

Re: Pirates fire manager Jim Tracy

Originally posted by eXperiment63

I don't believe he means compete for the WS with that payroll. But being competitive with $50M? Completely possible. If your team becomes competitive and looks to needs a little more to get over that next hump, I have to believe he will approve of it. Until maybe he is putting 70-80M/year into them.

It all depends on fan support. He has done so much to alienate the fans recently that the base is small. He can't just go out and spend $80M, he would lose a ton of money.

Just saying with that... The Indians payroll this year is 60 mil. We've been around 50-60 mil for 5-6 years now. Just saying.

Page not found – Sportscolumn Blog

http://blog.sportscolumn.com/story/2007/4/9/1367/60158

**mjb2124** · 10-05-2007, 12:29 PM

Re: Pirates fire manager Jim Tracy

Originally posted by eXperiment63

I don't believe he means compete for the WS with that payroll. But being competitive with $50M? Completely possible. If your team becomes competitive and looks to needs a little more to get over that next hump, I have to believe he will approve of it. Until maybe he is putting 70-80M/year into them.

It all depends on fan support. He has done so much to alienate the fans recently that the base is small. He can't just go out and spend $80M, he would lose a ton of money.

Maybe. The most I've ever hoped for is put 60-65 MIL into the team and have it utilized wisely (something that was not the case in previous years). I think that's reasonable especially if the reports from Forbes are true and the Pirates are actually making upwards of 20 MIL per year - which was ranked in the top 5-8 in MLB. That tells me they're making money, but not putting it back into the team.

**mjb2124** · 10-05-2007, 12:32 PM

Re: Pirates fire manager Jim Tracy

Originally posted by SPTO

Even if the Pirates get a great scouting GM and all that it's still going to take at least 5 years before the minor leagues are up to par with some of the better minor league operations for other teams.

As EG stated, Huntington appears to be a very good talent evaluator. Hopefully that bodes well for the Pirates future.

Like you said, it's going to take time though. The current state of the Pirates minor league system is abysmal. Only a handful of players look like they'll compete at the MLB level and maybe 1-2 might be very good. Maybe there's a few late bloomers in the pack, but who knows?

**Stu** · 10-05-2007, 12:35 PM

Re: Pirates fire manager Jim Tracy

A team can compete with a payroll in the $60 mil range if they're willing to invest in their minor league system as well. If you're only spending 50-60 mil on payroll and refusing to draft players that will command bigger signing bonuses, then you're probably not going to be too successful.

**ExtremeGamer** · 10-05-2007, 12:35 PM

Re: Pirates fire manager Jim Tracy

Originally posted by mjb2124

As EG stated, Huntington appears to be a very good talent evaluator. Hopefully that bodes well for the Pirates future.

Like you said, it's going to take time though. The current state of the Pirates minor league system is abysmal. Only a handful of players look like they'll compete at the MLB level and maybe 1-2 might be very good. Maybe there's a few late bloomers in the pack, but who knows?

Yeah, Huntington knows his stuff. He's responsible for a lot of the young talent on the Indians. Plus, he's got a great relationship with Shapiro, which bodes will with the Pirates for future trades. Trust me when I say this, the Indians minor league system is absolutely loaded right now with talent, we can't keep them all.

**asrabbit91** · 10-05-2007, 12:37 PM

Re: Pirates fire manager Jim Tracy

I think this is a step in the wrong direction, it takes 3 years to build a team, and honestly I think they were one year away, he is a very experienced manager, and thats something you need, maybe TLR will go there

**ExtremeGamer** · 10-05-2007, 12:39 PM

Re: Pirates fire manager Jim Tracy

Originally posted by asrabbit91

I think this is a step in the wrong direction, it takes 3 years to build a team, and honestly I think they were one year away, he is a very experienced manager, and thats something you need, maybe TLR will go there

Based on the GM move, they will get a young manager.

**mjb2124** · 10-05-2007, 01:06 PM

Re: Pirates fire manager Jim Tracy

Originally posted by asrabbit91

I think this is a step in the wrong direction, it takes 3 years to build a team, and honestly I think they were one year away, he is a very experienced manager, and thats something you need, maybe TLR will go there

Ehhh, I don't think the Pirates were 1 year away. They were still 2-3 years and in 2009, a whole bunch of guys were up for free agency (ie: Sanchez, Bay, LaRoche etc..). The Pirates won't pay all of them so it's time to start over again.

Tracy was a terrible manager. He had 0 leadership ability and was a horrible in game manager (ie: the way he handled a bullpen and played his favorites was horrible). This is the same guy that kept stating Freddy Sanchez was a platoon player despite Freddy hitting in the mid .340's last year. Add in that most of his coaching staff was poor and it was a good move. Heck, the pitching coach got into at least 3 fights in the dugout with players this year. The pitching coach also changed Zach Duke's mechanic's after Duke's sensational rookie season. Why? Sadly, Duke has never been the same. This staff lost complete control and trust of the team.

The name I'm hearing is another Indian - Joel Skinner.

**ExtremeGamer** · 10-05-2007, 01:07 PM

Re: Pirates fire manager Jim Tracy

Originally posted by mjb2124

Ehhh, I don't think the Pirates were 1 year away. They were still 2-3 years and in 2009, a whole bunch of guys were up for free agency (ie: Sanchez, Bay, LaRoche etc..). The Pirates won't pay all of them so it's time to start over again.

Tracy was a terrible manager. He had 0 leadership ability and was a horrible in game manager (ie: the way he handled a bullpen was horrible). Add in that most of his coaching staff was poor and it was a good move. Heck, the pitching coach got into at least 3 fights in the dugout with players this year. This staff lost complete control and trust of the team.

The name I'm hearing is another Indian - Joel Skinner.

LOL, I was going to say that you'll probably interview Skinner. He fits perfectly.

**asrabbit91** · 10-05-2007, 01:16 PM

Re: Pirates fire manager Jim Tracy

There biggest mistake was trading Mike Gonzalez, I know he got hurt with Atlanta, but still he was a solid closer.

**mjb2124** · 10-05-2007, 01:21 PM

Re: Pirates fire manager Jim Tracy

Originally posted by asrabbit91

There biggest mistake was trading Mike Gonzalez, I know he got hurt with Atlanta, but still he was a solid closer.

I don't think so. The Pirates got a good bat in Adam LaRoche and had a younger and possibly better closer waiting in the wings - Matt Capps. Plus, it was widely known in Pittsburgh that Gonzalez had arm trouble and would breakdown at some point. His mechanics are way too violent. Plus they have Marte as a LH setup guy and he was outstanding this year.

The bullpen isn't the Pirates problem. The poor offense and consistent starting pitching are. Plus, most relievers are a dime a dozen. IMO, I'd almost always trade a reliever for a starting position player. Much more value in the starting position player.

Pirates fire manager Jim Tracy

Recommended Videos

Pirates fire manager Jim Tracy

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment