Cubs rumour...or threat...

[CMH]

Re: Cubs rumour...or threat...

He still has a power arm, he is just a head case. If he had more composure he would be a top 2 pitcher in the NL.

But that's why he's not an ace.

You can't use "what if's" when describing a player and then say, "If not for that he'd be that good so I believe he's that good."

No, he's not that good because he walks too many batters, loses his patience on the mound, and just does some unusual stuff that makes you wonder how a man with his talents could pitch so poorly on a regular basis.

Is he still one of the better pitchers in baseball? Of course. But, he's not a true ace. He's just filling up the spot because true aces are hard to come by in baseball.

[MrBradSr]

Re: Cubs rumour...or threat...

Zambrano's "off" season was just an aberation. He still won 16 games. This guy has been a horse since 2003. 07 was his bad year that most pitchers have. Too many Cubs fans are still living off of Prior and Wood from 03. I really like Wood and glad he's been able to comeback somewhat as a reliever, but Prior is going to be out most of 08 as well and I say good riddance after that. I was glad the Cubs resigned Zambrano and made him the ace. Too many years they were throwing money at Prior and Wood who couldn't stay healthy. Too manyof Big Z's critics point to his "composure" on the mound as a problem. I don't care about that. Of the last 4 years this guy has missed maybe 1 or 2 starts at the most, while Prior has missed more starts than he's made. and of course Cubs fans will say that it was Dusty Baker's fault Prior and Wood got hurt. that is so much garbage. Those guys weren't used anymore than what old school players used to pitch. Ask Fergie Jenkins and Bob Gibson what their pitch counts were.

The Cubs need to keep Pie, Patterson and Hill. too much upside for all three. I'd prefer they package Theriot in any deal to get Crawford. Theriot is a classic over achiever. His stock is never going to be higher. The Cubs have an overstock of middle infielders. Whoever said get rid of Rameriz, well that's just ridiculous. Hopefully the Cubs go after this Fukudome guy from Japan. Everything I've heard about him has been great. Please send Ryan Dempster and Jason Marquis away, to anywhere. Its funny how Cub fans booed Latroy Hawkins out of Chicago and Dempster "is a stand up guy" after all of his blown saves. What crap.

[funky_chicken]

Re: Cubs rumour...or threat...

The Cubs need to keep Pie, Patterson and Hill. too much upside for all three. I'd prefer they package Theriot in any deal to get Crawford. Theriot is a classic over achiever. His stock is never going to be higher. The Cubs have an overstock of middle infielders. Whoever said get rid of Rameriz, well that's just ridiculous. Hopefully the Cubs go after this Fukudome guy from Japan. Everything I've heard about him has been great. Please send Ryan Dempster and Jason Marquis away, to anywhere. Its funny how Cub fans booed Latroy Hawkins out of Chicago and Dempster "is a stand up guy" after all of his blown saves. What crap.

Hawkins sucked and so does Dumpster. I say make Kerry Wood the closer. He can not do any worse then Dumpster did. I read in the paper the Cubs are thinking about putting Dumpster in the starting rotation. Shoot me now if they do.

[fugazi]

Re: Cubs rumour...or threat...

Maybe Jaque Jones and Cliff Floyd out of the way helps Pie's chances.

how can it not? I am not sold on Pie, but wouldn't mind learning if he is the truth...though he seems to have a similar disease as the one that afflicts Soriano where swing and plate approach are concerned.

Who is our starting OF now....Soriano and.........and.......Murton? He has had his chance....Cedeno? hope not. DeRosa?

[Lewshus]

Re: Cubs rumour...or threat...

The Cubs need to keep Pie, Patterson and Hill. too much upside for all three.

Man, the Cubs have not won a series in a CENTURY! One hundred friggin years! I am through listening to so and so has good upside. We need to win yesterday. Bring people in to give us a chance to win. After we win the series then you can start developing players. Right now, wins are more important than prospects.

[MrBradSr]

Re: Cubs rumour...or threat...

from everything I've read, Jim Hendry is going to go hard after Kosuke Fukudome for rf and try to work something out with Kaz Matsui, with this lineup:

Soriano LF
Matsui SS
DLee 1b
ARam 3b
Fukudome RF
Derosa 2b
Soto C
Pie CF

I think you could deal with a defensive CF with Pie out there. With this mostly veteran lineup it would give Pie and Soto a chance to develop, pretty much how Andruw and Chipper Jones were able to develop with the Braves.

[MrBradSr]

Re: Cubs rumour...or threat...

Man, the Cubs have not won a series in a CENTURY! One hundred friggin years! I am through listening to so and so has good upside. We need to win yesterday. Bring people in to give us a chance to win. After we win the series then you can start developing players. Right now, wins are more important than prospects.

And the Cubs also haven't developed very many players during that same time. prior to Corey Patterson coming up the last position player the Cubs developed was Mark Grace and Palmeiro. they traded away Palmeiro and if it wasn't for the streriod issue, he was going to be a 1st ballot HOF. Mark Grace isn't an any ballot HOF. Prior to that you have to go back to the Billy Williams-Ron Santo era to see any player development. They have done better with pitchers, (Maddux, Moyer, Wood, Prior, Zambrano). But this is why the Cubs haven't won in 100 years is because they don't develop any young players or the ones they do develop they trade away. (Lou Brock, Palmeiro,Dontrelle Willis etc) or let them leave via free agency (Maddux). I believe Jim Hendry and upper management are on the right track. Develop your farm system (Theriot, Pie, Fontenot, Soto, Hill, Marmol) and mix them in with your core veterans.

[poster]

Re: Cubs rumour...or threat...

Carlos has the best stuff in the NL. If he can control the walks everything else will fall into place. Forgetting about the walks, he did have a down year for him as his average vs. lefties went through the roof this year. Just not his year. He is the least of my worries.

On to this offseason. I have already expressed my disgust to friends as I dont really feel like they care about winning. With the revenue they bring in, it is an embarrassment and a slap in the face to Cubs fans for the payroll to be at 100 mil. They claim it will go up, but we'll wait and see about that.

I would make this trade in a second. I like Rich Hill, but he has done nothing to prove to me that he will take the next step. First frickin pitch of Game 3 he serves up a jack. One of the sickest moments in Cubs history and that's saying something.

There is no excuse for not going out and trying to sign A Rod. They just keep lining their pockets. F'in BS. Their farm system is so damn crappy that going out and making trades for good players like Crawford or Cabrera might not be a reality. 100 years of losing and drafting high and they have nothing but busters like Corey Patterson to show for it. /rant

[Macar91]

Re: Cubs rumour...or threat...

from everything I've read, Jim Hendry is going to go hard after Kosuke Fukudome for rf and try to work something out with Kaz Matsui, with this lineup:

Soriano LF
Matsui SS
DLee 1b
ARam 3b
Fukudome RF
Derosa 2b
Soto C
Pie CF

I think you could deal with a defensive CF with Pie out there. With this mostly veteran lineup it would give Pie and Soto a chance to develop, pretty much how Andruw and Chipper Jones were able to develop with the Braves.

Theriot >>> Matsui

[ZM Punk]

Re: Cubs rumour...or threat...

[quote=Lewshus;2037902226)
Felix Pie is not ready to play everyday. He can't hit...period. I'm tired of waiting for these prospects to pan out. First it was Patterson, and now its Pie. Pie has only showed that he can catch the ball and thats it. He is a career AAA player. Say it with me "Prospects are good for trading and thats it.[/quote]

You do realize that all Major League Baseball players start out as prospects. We aren't the Yankees or Red Sox. We have to develop our own talent every once and a while. Hell the Yankees and Red Sox are better at developing talent than we are.

With that out of the way, I would make that trade in a heart beat.

[Lewshus]

Re: Cubs rumour...or threat...

You do realize that all Major League Baseball players start out as prospects. We aren't the Yankees or Red Sox. We have to develop our own talent every once and a while. Hell the Yankees and Red Sox are better at developing talent than we are.

With that out of the way, I would make that trade in a heart beat.

Yes, but they could be like the Yankees and Red Sox, at least close to them. Like Poster said above, the revenue is there. Every year they sell out, plus they have a contract with WGN and maybe this year we will get to 125 million...cmon. I realize all players start out as rookies. But the urgency to win is at a fever pitch and I don't want to hear about developing rookies right now.

Tell me you don't feel how close this team is to breaking through. Last year we had the best lineup since 84. This team is soo close, we just need a few more pieces...and those pieces are not in there farm system.

[MrBradSr]

Re: Cubs rumour...or threat...

Yes, but they could be like the Yankees and Red Sox, at least close to them. Like Poster said above, the revenue is there. Every year they sell out, plus they have a contract with WGN and maybe this year we will get to 125 million...cmon. I realize all players start out as rookies. But the urgency to win is at a fever pitch and I don't want to hear about developing rookies right now.

Tell me you don't feel how close this team is to breaking through. Last year we had the best lineup since 84. This team is soo close, we just need a few more pieces...and those pieces are not in there farm system.

I'd put the final 03 lineup ahead of the 07 team. With that being said, I think not getting to the WS this year was a major disappointment. with the money the Tribune co finally spent to give Lou Pinella this team. Expectations should have been high and for them not to at least make it to the WS is a bigger failure than 03. In 03 the team was coming off a 90+ loss season with no new players but only a new manager who changed the culture of losing and got to within 5 outs of the WS. This past off season was coming off another 90+ loss season, but with healthier players (DLee was out most of 06) new free agents (Soriano, Lilly 15+wins in 06, Marquis and Derosa) and a new managr that has a WS championship under his belt. for them not to be the best team in the NL and at least get to the WS is pitiful.

[fugazi]

Re: Cubs rumour...or threat...

I'd put the final 03 lineup ahead of the 07 team. With that being said, I think not getting to the WS this year was a major disappointment. with the money the Tribune co finally spent to give Lou Pinella this team. Expectations should have been high and for them not to at least make it to the WS is a bigger failure than 03. In 03 the team was coming off a 90+ loss season with no new players but only a new manager who changed the culture of losing and got to within 5 outs of the WS. This past off season was coming off another 90+ loss season, but with healthier players (DLee was out most of 06) new free agents (Soriano, Lilly 15+wins in 06, Marquis and Derosa) and a new managr that has a WS championship under his belt. for them not to be the best team in the NL and at least get to the WS is pitiful.

with all due respect, i think you are overrating Soriano (he is a lineup killer) and the Cubs pitching staff all around. Not to mention Lee, who has come back down to earth as a hitter. and Floyd...All the preseason talk about NLC for the Cubs was, as I said then, smoke out the bootay.

[Lewshus]

Re: Cubs rumour...or threat...

with all due respect, i think you are overrating Soriano (he is a lineup killer) and the Cubs pitching staff all around. Not to mention Lee, who has come back down to earth as a hitter. and Floyd...All the preseason talk about NLC for the Cubs was, as I said then, smoke out the bootay.

I agree about Soriano. Any pitcher that throws him a first pitch fastball should released that day. He set the tone for our team in the series against AZ. Everyone knew he'd be first pitch swinging, and everyone knew Webb wasn't giving him a fastball first pitch. What happened...weak groundout and the series went downhill from there.

[wang_chi7]

Re: Cubs rumour...or threat...

You do realize that all Major League Baseball players start out as prospects. We aren't the Yankees or Red Sox. We have to develop our own talent every once and a while. Hell the Yankees and Red Sox are better at developing talent than we are.

With that out of the way, I would make that trade in a heart beat.

All teams must develop players. Just signing free agents does not work. New York hasn't won anything while going this route, their championships came from home grown guys like Jeter, Rivera, Posada, Pettitte and adding a few guys like O'Neill and Brosius who aren't all world guys but brought something to the club. David Cone was about the only big pickup before Clemens came for the last 2 rings

Boston hasn't won because of their payroll either; not totally anyways. It sure helped the rotation but the lineup outside of Manny is made up of guys they developed or diamonds in the rough (Ortiz, who nobody else wanted.) Lowell was a nice pickup, but not a star player or anything; he was really only taken as a demand in the Beckett trade.

Winners develop most of their guys and finish out the roster with smart moves. Just going after free agents gets you guys passed their prime and overpaid. It may buy you 95 wins, but not the ones that count (in October.)