Why do people think Jim Rice should be in the HOF?

[imapotato]

Re: Why do people think Jim Rice should be in the HOF?

If anyone is OLD ENOUGH to have seen Rice play, then you get it. And no....reading clippings or watching a Yankees/Bosox classic game does not qualify.....

I did see Rice play and no he is not a HOFer.

Anyone who looks at his home/road splits knows why...

There has to be a cutoff and guys like Rice, Sherry Magee(old Phils OF) and Byleven are there.

[imapotato]

Re: Why do people think Jim Rice should be in the HOF?

This is true...IMO Bill Mazeroski is in the HOF because of one career hit that just happened to win a World Series. From what I've heard, his defense was outstanding, but outstanding enough to ignore the fact that he was a career .260 hitter and never batted over .283 in a season? I'd put Rice in before him for sure.

2 different players from 2 different eras...HOF players should be compared ONLY to their peers, not the players already in.

That is why the Vet committee is there to look back after and see if the player looks better by comparison when other players of his era have been retired for a period of time

[Rod_Carew29]

@ imapotato

I've looked at his home/road splits, and I CHALLENGE you to prove that all of the guys in the HOF, all had better home/road splits.

for Rice:

Home:

1048 games/208 HR's/802 RBI's/.320

Away:

1046 games/174 HR's/649 RBI's/.277

like I said, he dominated...for 10 years...actually closer to 11....

and you have guys like Koufax, who dominated for ONLY 5-6, but who are in


and regarding Mazeroski (to the other poster), I don't feel he belongs in at all.

what's your point?

I did see Rice play and no he is not a HOFer.

Anyone who looks at his home/road splits knows why...

There has to be a cutoff and guys like Rice, Sherry Magee(old Phils OF) and Byleven are there.

[flute_316]

Re: Why do people think Jim Rice should be in the HOF?

Blyleven should get in before Morris.

100% agree but Morris,Dawson,Big Mac,Rice and Murphy all need to be in.

[dkgojackets]

Re: Why do people think Jim Rice should be in the HOF?

First of all, I think determining hall of fame status by "well he's better than (Player X) who is in" is pretty dumb. Just because mistakes were made earlier doesn't mean the floodgates should be opened.

Blyleven should be in, no question about it. Nine times with an ERA under 3.00. Morris had exactly zero seasons with an ERA under 3.00.

No way Morris should be in. Didn't even have one dominant season. Career ERA+ of 105. Barely above league average.

[dkgojackets]

Re: Why do people think Jim Rice should be in the HOF?

As for Rice, to quote FJM (who all happen to be a huge Red Sox homers)

4. Rice. An absolutely dominant hitter for a decade in Boston. Like Morris, I think, Rice loses points on personality. And that's not right.

You know nobody loves Jim Ed more than I. But again...he just wasn't as dominant as everyone says he was. Look for yourself. It's true. He was awesome for like 3-4 years, but then his eyesight went south -- which maybe Heyman thinks should work in his favor -- and he had injuries and stuff. Then he had a resurgence later as a DH, but it was too late, and he was done at like 33.

People always say that Rice was "the most feared" and the "scariest guy to see at the plate" and stuff...but for many of the years he played, he wasn't actually the best hitter, or player, on his own team. Look at Rice, and now look at Dewey. And remember that Rice was not the greatest OF, and that he DHed a lot, and that Dewey was an excellent RF. Why Dewey doesn't get more love for the Hall I'll never know. I don't think he should be in, but he never even sniffs a "Consider This Guy" article, and Jim Ed gets them all the time.

Anyway, the point is, Jim Ed = no, not quite, sorry. Love you. First Sox jersey was 14. Saw you hit a mammoth HR at Fenway in 1984 that might still be airborne. Just didn't play long enough, or well enough.

[Rod_Carew29]

'personality'

Agreed....personality my ***. MOST fans who talk about Rice being a bad guy, not friendly, etc., only go by what some idiotic scribes wrote about him. MOST times when there is an issue between player and writer, it's because of something that was written, said or that particular writer's behavior towards the player.

And let's not lose sight of, or act like we don't know about the racial climate in Boston in 1974. For a black player (Red Sox or otherwise) or fan, Fenway was NOT always the most welcome place to play. That alone, can affect how you deal with others. I went through that same **** here in NYC (Brooklyn) at that same time. So I totally understand.

To know Jim Rice is to REALLY know him. I met him once at a 'welcome home from spring training party'...class gentleman. I have a picture still of him, myself and Dave Winfield together.

For those writers...particularly those who wield the vote, I'd ask them: "Did PERSONALITY keep Steve Carlton from getting in?"

"How was Ty Cobb's personality?"



FJM:

"...Rice. An absolutely dominant hitter for a decade in Boston. Like Morris, I think, Rice loses points on personality. And that's not right...."

[Knight165]

Re: Why do people think Jim Rice should be in the HOF?

I agree....
Morris should be there...and Rice should be there.

...and DAMN...I was hopin' Hawk could make it. Just a sentimental choice I guess....

M.K.
Knight165

[Gary Armida]

Re: 'personality'

Agreed....personality my ***. MOST fans who talk about Rice being a bad guy, not friendly, etc., only go by what some idiotic scribes wrote about him. MOST times when there is an issue between player and writer, it's because of something that was written, said or that particular writer's behavior towards the player.

And let's not lose sight of, or act like we don't know about the racial climate in Boston in 1974. For a black player (Red Sox or otherwise) or fan, Fenway was NOT always the most welcome place to play. That alone, can affect how you deal with others. I went through that same **** here in NYC (Brooklyn) at that same time. So I totally understand.

To know Jim Rice is to REALLY know him. I met him once at a 'welcome home from spring training party'...class gentleman. I have a picture still of him, myself and Dave Winfield together.

For those writers...particularly those who wield the vote, I'd ask them: "Did PERSONALITY keep Steve Carlton from getting in?"

"How was Ty Cobb's personality?"



FJM:

"...Rice. An absolutely dominant hitter for a decade in Boston. Like Morris, I think, Rice loses points on personality. And that's not right...."

Completely agree Rod.The fact is that Rice as a dominant player in his 16 year career. That should be the end of the story. He is a glaring omission from the Hall. In fact 8 of his 16 seasons were dominant seasons with a few more really good years. There are not many players who can boast that more than 50 percent of his career was dominant.

Personality should not have anything to do with it. He was the best hitter in baseball for many, many years.

[Kashanova]

Re: 'personality'

im sure he'll get in next year

[johnnyg83]

Re: Why do people think Jim Rice should be in the HOF?

If Rice played his career in Texas or Milwaukee ... he never gets this close.

[Rod_Carew29]

@ johnnyg83

I don't know about that, but that's just pusre speculation becasue he didn't. I can say that sometimes, a dominant player for a team that REALLY sucks, does stand out...so I don't think your argument is valid.

I don't have the time, but I'm sure you could name many players who absolutely raked season after season, but their teams were absolutely horrible.

If Rice played his career in Texas or Milwaukee ... he never gets this close.

[SPTO]

Re: Why do people think Jim Rice should be in the HOF?

If Rice played his career in Texas or Milwaukee ... he never gets this close.

I agree to an extent but I also see Rod_Carew's point. There was a recent Keith Law chat on ESPN and a person asked "Dave Stieb+one of the greatest WS performances=Jack Morris?" Keith Law basically agreed. That just goes to show that a player's profile can rise dramatically based on huge national spotlight situations.

Looking at Rice's postseason stats they're quite poor and hence he didn't have that big shining moment. Of course, those who never saw him play don't realize that those appearances were at the tail end of his career and those that did see him play will always put that against him because they have some vendetta against the guy.

Personally I think Rice should be in HOF as he truly was one of the most dominant players in the AL at the time.

[Rod_Carew29]

@ SPTO

I see your points.

Yesterday evening on Kevin Kennedy & Rob Dibble's "The Show" on the Baseball Channel (XM 175), a guy called up and made an interesting point. He said he believed if the Bosox had beaten the Mets in 1986, Rice would have been in already. His reasoning? Because the 'he never got a ring' banter could not be used. Hmmmmm

I agree to an extent but I also see Rod_Carew's point. There was a recent Keith Law chat on ESPN and a person asked "Dave Stieb+one of the greatest WS performances=Jack Morris?" Keith Law basically agreed. That just goes to show that a player's profile can rise dramatically based on huge national spotlight situations.

Looking at Rice's postseason stats they're quite poor and hence he didn't have that big shining moment. Of course, those who never saw him play don't realize that those appearances were at the tail end of his career and those that did see him play will always put that against him because they have some vendetta against the guy.

Personally I think Rice should be in HOF as he truly was one of the most dominant players in the AL at the time.

[Sportsforever]

Re: @ SPTO

Does player A deserve to be in the HOF?

Player A: .295, 381 HR, 1239 RBI, 88 SB, 12 seasons

Rice: .298, 382, 1451 RBI, 58 SB, 16 seasons