Why do people think Jim Rice should be in the HOF?

[Rod_Carew29]

@ SPTO

They BOTH deserve to be in, and if you're serious, I'd like for you to take your stats to Bill Mazeroski's case and explain that one.

Again, many fans, many media types and apparently many of those who vote, look at the voting like a damn video game. Stats don't ALWAYS tell the story. ASK the guys who played with and against him. Hell, even Gossage was quoted yesterday saying that Rice belongs. The players know more than the fans do. I'm not directing this at you SPTO, but keep in mind the same fans who think they know who qualifies for the HOF, are the SAME one in many cases who make an absolute mockery when it comes the the All-Star voting.

Bottom line, I trust and believe those who REALLY know the game...the players, managers and the broadcasters...

Some writers, too many fans and a lot of talkies on sports shows, don't know squat. Many of whom never ever saw the guy play. Some knucklehead on ESPN yesterday said he wouln't vote Rice in because he would have been the worse fielder in the HOF. Are you kidding me? Another donkey's behind actually referred to Rice as a pitcher. Go figure.

Does player A deserve to be in the HOF?

Player A: .295, 381 HR, 1239 RBI, 88 SB, 12 seasons

Rice: .298, 382, 1451 RBI, 58 SB, 16 seasons

[Sportsforever]

Re: @ SPTO

They BOTH deserve to be in, and if you're serious, I'd like for you to take your stats to Bill Mazeroski's case and explain that one.

Again, many fans, many media types and apparently many of those who vote, look at the voting like a damn video game. Stats don't ALWAYS tell the story. ASK the guys who played with and against him. Hell, even Gossage was quoted yesterday saying that Rice belongs. The players know more than the fans do. I'm not directing this at you SPTO, but keep in mind the same fans who think they know who qualifies for the HOF, are the SAME one in many cases who make an absolute mockery when it comes the the All-Star voting.

Bottom line, I trust and believe those who REALLY know the game...the players, managers and the broadcasters...

Some writers, too many fans and a lot of talkies on sports shows, don't know squat. Many of whom never ever saw the guy play. Some knucklehead on ESPN yesterday said he wouln't vote Rice in because he would have been the worse fielder in the HOF. Are you kidding me? Another donkey's behind actually referred to Rice as a pitcher. Go figure.

Player A is Albert Belle...and I don't think Maz should be in the HOF. I personally think the veterans committee should be done away with. Do you think Albert is hall worthy? I am one who always errs on the side of not letting someone in rather than let them in. If they are borderline, then I would say no. I just don't want it to be a hall of very good...all though I admit a lot of the older players in there are just that.

[Eton Rifles]

Re: @ SPTO

I do think that Rice not winning in '86 defiantly hurts some. Remember he missed all of the '75 postseason with a injury. He got so close this year that next year he'll get in.

[Rod_Carew29]

@ Sportsforever

OK...wasn't initally aware that player 'A' was Belle. Well...truth be told, his number are what they are...All-Star Caliber. Again, folks need to pipe down when it comes down to character or who is good or not. If ya got Ty Cobb in there (#1 racist and involed in someone's death), then if Belle qualifies, he should be in.

I agree with you, The Hall of the Very Good ain't what it's about.

Player A is Albert Belle...and I don't think Maz should be in the HOF. I personally think the veterans committee should be done away with. Do you think Albert is hall worthy? I am one who always errs on the side of not letting someone in rather than let them in. If they are borderline, then I would say no. I just don't want it to be a hall of very good...all though I admit a lot of the older players in there are just that.

[Rod_Carew29]

@ Eton Rifles

Yes, that '86 angle does make sense to me. I hadn't thought about it until that caller made the point yesterday. And yes, missing the end of '75 may have had an effect.

Next year? I hope. Henderson is up (first ballot) next year also.

I do think that Rice not winning in '86 defiantly hurts some. Remember he missed all of the '75 postseason with a injury. He got so close this year that next year he'll get in.

[Sportsforever]

Re: @ Sportsforever

OK...wasn't initally aware that player 'A' was Belle. Well...truth be told, his number are what they are...All-Star Caliber. Again, folks need to pipe down when it comes down to character or who is good or not. If ya got Ty Cobb in there (#1 racist and involed in someone's death), then if Belle qualifies, he should be in.

I agree with you, The Hall of the Very Good ain't what it's about.

I completely agree that character or personality shouldn't factor in at all...but I don't think Belle will ever get in with his #'s, so I don't see why Rice should get in since the #'s are similar. They were both dominant hitters for about the same amount of time (7-8 year stretch). It's not up to you or me, but for my money Jim Rice is a borderline HOF and I wouldn't vote him in (again, I concede there are MUCH less deserving players in the HOF then Rice...not saying he isn't as good or better than players already there).

[dkgojackets]

Re: @ SPTO

Rice and Dwight Evans put up pretty much the same numbers. How come there's no outcry for Evans? Evans also played four more years and they had the same career OPS+.

Rice career 83.2 warp3
Evans 120.2

This really isn't even close.

[Rod_Carew29]

@ Sportsforever

your points are fair and most importantly, you are consistent.....

^5

I completely agree that character or personality shouldn't factor in at all...but I don't think Belle will ever get in with his #'s, so I don't see why Rice should get in since the #'s are similar. They were both dominant hitters for about the same amount of time (7-8 year stretch). It's not up to you or me, but for my money Jim Rice is a borderline HOF and I wouldn't vote him in (again, I concede there are MUCH less deserving players in the HOF then Rice...not saying he isn't as good or better than players already there).

[Rod_Carew29]

@ dkgojackets

I would say to you...and I am VERY serious...go online to the bostonglobe.com, head to the sports column and send a brief e-mail to them, they will reply back to you.

I'd seen Evans play, and for me, his name doesnt come up on the radar. But I figure the Boston sports press would know better than me.


And again, STATS alone, DON'T tell the whole story. the 83.2 vs. 120.2 means NOTHING in terms of voting

The one thing Rice had over Evans and most players in his hey day, was that when he was at the plate, he literally put the fear of God in opposing pitchers.....

Rice and Dwight Evans put up pretty much the same numbers. How come there's no outcry for Evans? Evans also played four more years and they had the same career OPS+.

Rice career 83.2 warp3
Evans 120.2

This really isn't even close.

[Eton Rifles]

Re: @ dkgojackets

Evans was not really a great hitter until about 1986. He was always good defensively but I don't think he a good enough hitter for long enough to be a HOF.

[dkgojackets]

Re: @ dkgojackets

Evans was not really a great hitter until about 1986. He was always good defensively but I don't think he a good enough hitter for long enough to be a HOF.

I'd disagree with that. Of his three best years in OPS+, three were before 86 (although 87 was his best overall year).

1981 OPS+ 162
1982 148
1984 147
1987 156

He put together great seasons from 1980 onwards. 86-89 was a very nice four year run, but Evans had been producing for quite a while before that.

[SPTO]

Re: Why do people think Jim Rice should be in the HOF?

Wasn't Evans known as the doubles hitting machine? I didn't really see him as a game changing type of guy or even someone to fear that much. I will admit he was a fine defensive player in his day.

[Eton Rifles]

Re: Why do people think Jim Rice should be in the HOF?

[QUOTE=SPTO;2038043103]Wasn't Evans known as the doubles hitting machine? I didn't really see him as a game changing type of guy or even someone to fear that much. I will admit he was a fine defensive player in his day.[


True, Evans was probably the best right fielder in Red Sox history. He could play Right field at Fenway better than anybody else which was not easy considering the funny dimensions there.

[Gary Armida]

Re: @ SPTO

Player A is Albert Belle...and I don't think Maz should be in the HOF. I personally think the veterans committee should be done away with. Do you think Albert is hall worthy? I am one who always errs on the side of not letting someone in rather than let them in. If they are borderline, then I would say no. I just don't want it to be a hall of very good...all though I admit a lot of the older players in there are just that.

Good call on Belle. I am actually writing something up on Belle for my site--it will be up on Friday. The voters really look two-faced when personality gets into the conversation.

[snepp]

Re: @ SPTO

http://baseballanalysts.com/archives/2008/01/listen_buster_r.php