Canseco back at it again

[ZB9]

Re: Canseco back at it again

opening day around the corner and we are talking about this crap. All you need is an accusation nowadays to get on ESPN's front page or write a freaking book even. This is all becoming a joke.

[PhantomPain]

Re: Canseco back at it again

opening day around the corner and we are talking about this crap. All you need is an accusation nowadays to get on ESPN's front page or write a freaking book even. This is all becoming a joke.

Yeah hopefully the fans, the owners, Bud Selig and the media will just forget that performance enhancing drugs ever happened and sweep all of this under the rug. I mean, the last thing I want to think about as baseball season approaches are all the cheaters in the game that have ruined a great sport. I think that since everyone, or close to it, did them then they should just allow it at this point and give all the other records before it the asterik. Makes sense to me

Let's face it, as much as it is inconvenient for us fans to have to hear about it, it is because fans don't care that nothing significant will ever be done. People still buy their season tickets, people still support their favorite player by buying their jerseys, and when the topic comes up people just want to ignore it. So that is what will happen, baseball will ignore this and continue on as if nothing ever happened. It's a shame really. And no, I don't know what "should" be done to make this all better, but I know by fans disregarding it, it will only hurt baseball in the long run.

[ZB9]

Re: Canseco back at it again

Yeah hopefully the fans, the owners, Bud Selig and the media will just forget that performance enhancing drugs ever happened and sweep all of this under the rug. I mean, the last thing I want to think about as baseball season approaches are all the cheaters in the game that have ruined a great sport. I think that since everyone, or close to it, did them then they should just allow it at this point and give all the other records before it the asterik. Makes sense to me

Let's face it, as much as it is inconvenient for us fans to have to hear about it, it is because fans don't care that nothing significant will ever be done. People still buy their season tickets, people still support their favorite player by buying their jerseys, and when the topic comes up people just want to ignore it. So that is what will happen, baseball will ignore this and continue on as if nothing ever happened. It's a shame really. And no, I don't know what "should" be done to make this all better, but I know by fans disregarding it, it will only hurt baseball in the long run.

it's simple.

implement a comprehensive testing program, like the NFL and every other major sport does, and move forward...novel idea i know

if Bud Selig and MLB as well as the players' union would have had a testing program in the past, we wouldnt be having this BS retro witch hunt.

[PhantomPain]

Re: Canseco back at it again

it's simple

implement a comprehensive testing program, like the NFL and every other major sport does, and move forward...novel idea i know

if Bud Selig and MLB would have had a testing program in the past, we wouldnt be having this BS retro witch hunt

I agree wholeheartedly. Problem is that Selig knew it was going on (at least I suspect he did) as well as the owners. They let it slide because baseball was in some serious crap after the 1994 strike and was not garnering as much attention until 1998 when McGwire and Sosa had the home run chase. But this isn't anything new to any of you here, it's just sad.

[ehh]

Re: Canseco back at it again

Thanks for linking the scans. LOL at that section, what a joke. I've been introduced to guys who've sold coke and heroine before, doesn't mean I ever took either drug.

The whole situation with A-Rod and Canseco's wife sounds ******** and I don't buy it.

[Freelance]

Re: Canseco back at it again

The crazy thing is that Canseco will go down as a heroic figure in the end. He might be the "man who cleaned up baseball" 25 years down the road.

Everything he's written so far as ended up pretty much dead on. I laughed at his first book at first, but I'm not laughing anymore.

[RandyMoss84]

Re: Canseco back at it again

Thanks for linking the scans. LOL at that section, what a joke. I've been introduced to guys who've sold coke and heroine before, doesn't mean I ever took either drug.

The whole situation with A-Rod and Canseco's wife sounds ******** and I don't buy it.

did you go to a "friend" and say "do you know where someone can get heroine and coke at?" then you were introduced to them?

probably not, which makes your argument irrelevant and yes the bs about his wife is pointless but the main point is that there are still more steroid users that America doesn't know about.

the real joke is how the public will hang Barry Bonds for accusations but then when all these other "superstars" come out as using steroids it's swept under the rug, or when people actually get busted they're names arn't brought up again. Griffey and Bonds have always been my favorite players since they came in the league. Griffey was better than Bonds but he didn't have the workout regiment that Bonds had and it hurt him now. Griffey was good enough to not work too hard at the time, he was "The Kid."

"Why would I stretch before I play, does a cheetah stretch before he hunts" - Ken Griffey Jr.

Griffey is one player in the league that I can say without doubt in my mind that he didn't use steroids, pretty much any other player is fair game in my mind. The majority of hitters were juicing, pitchers were juicing, everyone was juicing. The statistics are statistics they should stand, if steroids helped you that much then how come all those scrubs that actually HAVE BEEN CAUGHT with roids don't have **** for stats.

tested positive for roids by MLB
Alex Sanchez
Jorge Piedra
Agustin Montero
Jamal Strong
Juan Rincon
Rafael Betancourt
Rafael Palmeiro
Ryan Franklin
Mike Morse
Carlos Almanzar
Felix Heredia
Matt Lawton
Yusaku Iriki
Guillermo Mota
Juan Salas
Dan Serafini

bunch of scrubs

admitted steroids users
Ken Caminiti
Bobby Estalella
Jason Giambi
Jeremy Giambi
Armando Rios
Benito Santiago
Gary Sheffield
Jose Canseco
Tom House
Wally Joyner
Jim Leyritz
Paxton Crawford
Jason Grimsley
David Segui
John Rocker
Paul Byrd
Shane Monahan

some better players here but still no one has the numbers even close to Bonds

Bonds is the best hitter of all time, and the best player of our generation.

[PhantomPain]

Re: Canseco back at it again

did you go to a "friend" and say "do you know where someone can get heroine and coke at?" then you were introduced to them?

probably not, which makes your argument irrelevant and yes the bs about his wife is pointless but the main point is that there are still more steroid users that America doesn't know about.

the real joke is how the public will hang Barry Bonds for accusations but then when all these other "superstars" come out as using steroids it's swept under the rug, or when people actually get busted they're names arn't brought up again. Griffey and Bonds have always been my favorite players since they came in the league. Griffey was better than Bonds but he didn't have the workout regiment that Bonds had and it hurt him now. Griffey was good enough to not work too hard at the time, he was "The Kid."



Griffey is one player in the league that I can say without doubt in my mind that he didn't use steroids, pretty much any other player is fair game in my mind. The majority of hitters were juicing, pitchers were juicing, everyone was juicing. The statistics are statistics they should stand, if steroids helped you that much then how come all those scrubs that actually HAVE BEEN CAUGHT with roids don't have **** for stats.

tested positive for roids by MLB
Alex Sanchez
Jorge Piedra
Agustin Montero
Jamal Strong
Juan Rincon
Rafael Betancourt
Rafael Palmeiro
Ryan Franklin
Mike Morse
Carlos Almanzar
Felix Heredia
Matt Lawton
Yusaku Iriki
Guillermo Mota
Juan Salas
Dan Serafini

bunch of scrubs

admitted steroids users
Ken Caminiti
Bobby Estalella
Jason Giambi
Jeremy Giambi
Armando Rios
Benito Santiago
Gary Sheffield
Jose Canseco
Tom House
Wally Joyner
Jim Leyritz
Paxton Crawford
Jason Grimsley
David Segui
John Rocker
Paul Byrd
Shane Monahan

some better players here but still no one has the numbers even close to Bonds

Bonds is the best hitter of all time, and the best player of our generation.

I think Bonds could have been one of the best players of All Time (and will be regarded as such anyway but that is now tainted) had he never used steroids. He was already on his way to being one of the GREATEST ever and then decided he needed to push it even more. Steroids can't make you NOT swing at a pitch to raise your OBP and they can't make your eyes become better to see a pitch to hit. He had all that on his own. They can give you extra power to hit more balls out of the park though and that is exactly what happened. The guy is a major public PR nightmare, always has been. But he was/is also a phenomenal player. But to me, the fact that he took the roids ever (even if he already proved to be a great great player before that) makes him null and void for greatest player of our generation. Again, to me anyway, that goes to the one guy that has had an incredible career leading up to his injury and has never been linked...Griffey. Who, by the way, while not quite the arse that Bonds is, isn't exactly a cream puff interviewee either. But a lot of that probably has to do with his injury and constant talk about him and his injuries.

Either way Bonds cheated, when he never had to, and that will always and forever taint him. It's just dumb.

As far as the other players you mention and why they didn't put up great numbers, it's simple. They were never as talented as Bonds to begin with. Bonds was already one of, if not the most talented player in baseball before he took the steroids. He only further enhanced himself by taking them.

But I also agree that it shouldn't JUST be Bonds or even Clemens that get railed in this stuff. If you do it to one person it should be done to everyone. In fact, by not doing such it leaves the impression that one could fly under the radar and leaves open the possibilty for cheating in the future. Baseball needs to come down on this and come down hard. Bring the gauntlet and sacrifice no one. That would open some eyes and bring some credibility back to baseball.

[mjb2124]

Re: Canseco back at it again

I think Bonds could have been one of the best players of All Time (and will be regarded as such anyway but that is now tainted) had he never used steroids. He was already on his way to being one of the GREATEST ever and then decided he needed to push it even more.

I agree. According to some reports, Barry's jealousy of McGwire and Sosa pushed him to use steroids. He couldn't accept not being "the guy".

the real joke is how the public will hang Barry Bonds for accusations but then when all these other "superstars" come out as using steroids it's swept under the rug

They aren't just accusations. He admitted to using the cream and clear - both which are steroids, but claimed he didn't know what either of them were.

Whether right or wrong, Barry made his own bed with his actions - whether he did it intentionally, isn't a smart guy or is just that arrogant (I think it's all 3). His attitude hurt him from day 1. Not many remember all the stuff that happened when he played for the Pirates. He fought with everyone...media, fans, teammates, managers/coaches, ballboys etc... If he wasn't such an *** to everyone, the backlash wouldn't be at the same level that it is. That's life and why it's never wise to burn bridges. Add to it, that Barry broke one of the most hallowed records in all of baseball while on the juice (he might have broke it without 'roids, but we'll never know). Of course he's going to garner more scrutiny than Joe Schmoe who is just trying to stay in the majors. Nature of the beast.

[BigDofBA]

Re: Canseco back at it again

Obviously, you can't prove it either way but if you believe Canseco on this I think you need to get your head checked. Sure, tons of players have used steriods but what about A-Rod would lead you to believe he took them? His body hasn't magically blown up like a balloon, he's been an MVP canidate every single year since he been a regular player (should have won the MVP in 1996). His numbers have been consistent and seasons when he hit his highest amount of home runs he was in a hitters park in the prime of his career. Where is the evidence that he's done steriods? Some of Canseco's claims haven't been crazy but that doesn't mean he's a valid source of information. I don't like A-Rod, but I'd like to be objective when accusing players of using steriods.

You don't have to look like a bodybuilder to be juicing. Did Pettite look that big? What about Palmeiro? Look at Lance Armstrong and all of those Tour de France guys. They are like 150 lbs soaking wet.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if A-rod was juicing. While not huge like McGwire the dude is still pretty big.

You don't have to like Canseco but he is the most credible source we have. I believed his first book when a lot of people didn't.

Canseco said he introduced A-Rod to a supplier. He never said he injected him or saw him inject. Canseco was asked for evidence and he said it wasn't the right time to come forward with it. I have a feeling Canseco is waiting for A-Rod to deny it and call him a liar. After that, Canseco will produce the evidence while the season is going on. Then the media will be all over it. Canseco hates A-Rod. I could really see him doing this and I could really see him telling the truth.

[The Chef]

Re: Canseco back at it again

Not all steroids are used for muscle building, and I would imagine many of them use it to help either avoid injury or recover from injuries. I would be surprised if Canseco has any real evidence against A-Rod, and like I said earlier, if he didnt go on his wild tangent about A-Rod wanting to sleep with his wife I might take what he said more seriously, but the moment he did it started to sound like a vendetta against Rodriguez and more personal then in the past when he would talk about players and their steroid abuse. Secondly, then he apparently goes on some wild tangent against Magglio but when I hear that he attempted to black mail him last year I have a tough time taking that seriously as well. I will say one thing, if A-Rod turns out to be a user as well, I might just quit watching baseball and move on, its tough to root for teams and players only to find out they were a cheat, heck, when I was younger Canseco, Ricky Henderson and Strawberry were my favorite players so needless to say Canseco has let me down.

[agonytheclown]

Re: Canseco back at it again

good the truth should come out

I'm thinking "smartest fan ever...."

Bonds is the greatest player of our generation

Until I read that line.

[NYJets]

Re: Canseco back at it again

but the main point is that there are still more steroid users that America doesn't know about.

That's not the point in this thread. In this thread it's whether A-Rod did them.

He might have, but I'm not going to say he did based on the words of a guy who needs money and has a personal vendetta against A-Rod, especially after hearing his bs reason for why he didn't mention A-Rod in his first book.

[gta95]

Re: Canseco back at it again

I'm just wondering why he waited till the sequel to release all the other names. More money?

[RandyMoss84]

Re: Canseco back at it again

That's not the point in this thread. In this thread it's whether A-Rod did them.

says who? the thread seems to be about Canseco's new book to me

He might have, but I'm not going to say he did based on the words of a guy who needs money and has a personal vendetta against A-Rod, especially after hearing his bs reason for why he didn't mention A-Rod in his first book.

he told the truth last time why think differently of him now