All-Star Break: Report

[PGOODY]

Re: All-Star Break: Report

u guyz should try turning the STRIKE ZONE OFF it ( at least for hitting that is) it really challenges you on those high fastballs and looping curves

[PGOODY]

Re: All-Star Break: Report

u guyz should try turning the STRIKE ZONE OFF it ( at least for hitting that is) it really challenges you on those high fastballs and looping curves

[joestros]

Re: All-Star Break: Report

Great post BaldEagle. Sounds like you and I have the same issues with the game...pitching. I hope we can have a discussion here about how EA can go about fixing this big issue with MVP.

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I've thought about why I don't give up many HRs, and it's mostly because I like to pitch the corners, and I make very few mistake pitches. The game does not do enough to "force" me to throw toward the heart of the plate, as I can locate an overwhelming majority of my pitches with laser-like accuracy. If EA can address this, they'll have a real winner in my book.

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I agree. Along the same lines, they need to address the problem of not filling up your meter and the cpu hitting weak outs. You should be punished by not throwing a hard pitch. My understanding is the lower you fill the meter, the more accurate, but less movement the ball has. If this is true, a major league hitter would punish a ball with little movement and low speed. These types of pitches should be effective only as a suprise, not on a regualar basis.

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So, I thought about what EA could do to improve this ... in my opinion, of course. First, I feel that if they increase the speed of the accuracy meter for pitches, that would result in more "tipped" pitches and potentially better contact by the CPU. And I'm not talking about a flat increase in speed either, as it will be too easy to get the timing down. No, I'm talking about if you miss by a little, the meter goes a little faster ... and if you miss by alot, then it goes alot faster. This will make it tougher to get the timing down.

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Good thoughts. My idea would be for pitchers with less accuracy the meter would vary in speed from pitch to pitch, or every so often, depending on their control. This would simulate the wildness of pitchers with poor control. It would be possible to pitch well with a wild pitcher, but it would take a lot of work and good reflexes. This method would also help out the cpu HR problem because a lot more pitches would become mistake pitches. Your corner idea would work well with this method; the tougher the pitch you are attempting, the faster the meter, or more varied the meter speed.

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I like that the green accuracy area varies in size based on how well a pitcher pitches a certain pitch. I also like that it decreases in size when a pitcher goes into the red zone for pitch effectiveness. But, at least for me, it's too easy to hit that green area ... even when it is small. This is mostly due to the constant rate at which the meter indicator travels back-and-forth. But there is another thing EA could do, even if someone is able to hit the green zones with relative frequency to increase a human pitcher's reluctance to pitch the corners all the time. That is to require a pitcher to hit the exact middle of the green accuracy zone to pitch a perfect pitch. If the indicator is even slightly off-center, then the pitch will miss the "target" by a small degree. It seems that this is done to a very (and I mean VERY) small degree now. If this is expanded upon so that the accuracy of a pitch is measured in inches (relative of course) rather than centimeters, I think human pitchers will see more pitches at the corners miss the strike zone, resulting in pitches thrown closer to the heart of the plate to ensure strikes on batter-favorable counts ... and potentially resulting in better contact by the CPU.

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Another good idea that would work great with the varied speed meter. The green zone should be smaller to begin with, and there should be more levels of accurate pitches, like a dartboard. The green accuracy zone could also shrink or expand randomly based on the pitcher's control and slugging % given up. Again, this would result in more mistake pitches that could be driven for extra bases.

The amount of randomness of speed and accuracy zones would be based on the pitchers walks per 9 innings and slugging percentage. A guy that gives up a lot of walks would be hard to hit the green with, and a guy who gave up a lot of extra base hits would make more mistake pitches. I like how the game handles who sees more mistake pitches, but it could also base it purely on the pitchers mistakes, and the result would be based on the batter's power ability. For example, Sosa has more power than Hill so Sosa would hit more extra base hits on mistake pitches, but Hill might see the same number of mistake pitches but only has the power to get an extra base hit once and a while. Perhaps guys like Sosa and Bonds should see more, but not a lot more.

The bottom line is there needs to be more skill involved in pitching to the cpu. The player needs to be forced to nibble the corners to avoid the big hits, but doing so should be tougher. Thanks for the insighful post BaldEagle. We need to talk!

-Joe

[joestros]

Re: All-Star Break: Report

Great post BaldEagle. Sounds like you and I have the same issues with the game...pitching. I hope we can have a discussion here about how EA can go about fixing this big issue with MVP.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
I've thought about why I don't give up many HRs, and it's mostly because I like to pitch the corners, and I make very few mistake pitches. The game does not do enough to "force" me to throw toward the heart of the plate, as I can locate an overwhelming majority of my pitches with laser-like accuracy. If EA can address this, they'll have a real winner in my book.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

I agree. Along the same lines, they need to address the problem of not filling up your meter and the cpu hitting weak outs. You should be punished by not throwing a hard pitch. My understanding is the lower you fill the meter, the more accurate, but less movement the ball has. If this is true, a major league hitter would punish a ball with little movement and low speed. These types of pitches should be effective only as a suprise, not on a regualar basis.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
So, I thought about what EA could do to improve this ... in my opinion, of course. First, I feel that if they increase the speed of the accuracy meter for pitches, that would result in more "tipped" pitches and potentially better contact by the CPU. And I'm not talking about a flat increase in speed either, as it will be too easy to get the timing down. No, I'm talking about if you miss by a little, the meter goes a little faster ... and if you miss by alot, then it goes alot faster. This will make it tougher to get the timing down.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Good thoughts. My idea would be for pitchers with less accuracy the meter would vary in speed from pitch to pitch, or every so often, depending on their control. This would simulate the wildness of pitchers with poor control. It would be possible to pitch well with a wild pitcher, but it would take a lot of work and good reflexes. This method would also help out the cpu HR problem because a lot more pitches would become mistake pitches. Your corner idea would work well with this method; the tougher the pitch you are attempting, the faster the meter, or more varied the meter speed.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
I like that the green accuracy area varies in size based on how well a pitcher pitches a certain pitch. I also like that it decreases in size when a pitcher goes into the red zone for pitch effectiveness. But, at least for me, it's too easy to hit that green area ... even when it is small. This is mostly due to the constant rate at which the meter indicator travels back-and-forth. But there is another thing EA could do, even if someone is able to hit the green zones with relative frequency to increase a human pitcher's reluctance to pitch the corners all the time. That is to require a pitcher to hit the exact middle of the green accuracy zone to pitch a perfect pitch. If the indicator is even slightly off-center, then the pitch will miss the "target" by a small degree. It seems that this is done to a very (and I mean VERY) small degree now. If this is expanded upon so that the accuracy of a pitch is measured in inches (relative of course) rather than centimeters, I think human pitchers will see more pitches at the corners miss the strike zone, resulting in pitches thrown closer to the heart of the plate to ensure strikes on batter-favorable counts ... and potentially resulting in better contact by the CPU.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Another good idea that would work great with the varied speed meter. The green zone should be smaller to begin with, and there should be more levels of accurate pitches, like a dartboard. The green accuracy zone could also shrink or expand randomly based on the pitcher's control and slugging % given up. Again, this would result in more mistake pitches that could be driven for extra bases.

The amount of randomness of speed and accuracy zones would be based on the pitchers walks per 9 innings and slugging percentage. A guy that gives up a lot of walks would be hard to hit the green with, and a guy who gave up a lot of extra base hits would make more mistake pitches. I like how the game handles who sees more mistake pitches, but it could also base it purely on the pitchers mistakes, and the result would be based on the batter's power ability. For example, Sosa has more power than Hill so Sosa would hit more extra base hits on mistake pitches, but Hill might see the same number of mistake pitches but only has the power to get an extra base hit once and a while. Perhaps guys like Sosa and Bonds should see more, but not a lot more.

The bottom line is there needs to be more skill involved in pitching to the cpu. The player needs to be forced to nibble the corners to avoid the big hits, but doing so should be tougher. Thanks for the insighful post BaldEagle. We need to talk!

-Joe

[BaldEaglePride]

Re: All-Star Break: Report

Joe -

I appreciate that you like the post. I can also appreciate that there are some areas, that if addressed, could make the game better. But, perhaps you're being a bit too critical of EA's brand new engine ...

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
The bottom line is there needs to be more skill involved in pitching to the cpu.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

... In fact, EA has added more skill to the pitching aspect of their game than has been attempted by any other company. It is not simply select, aim, and fire ... as it is with the majority of baseball games out there. In addition, the pitching meter actually makes pitching fun!!! Kudos to EA for putting a refreshing twist on the pitcher/batter confrontation. It's a bit rough around the edges ... but it's a great start!

So on to your major points ...

* I agree that ineffective pitches should result in hits more often than they do. There are a couple of things EA could do here. They could simply code next year's program such that the CPU would hit those pitches better. Or ... they could adjust the accuracy meter even further than I originally suggested. The green accuracy area could start off small, and grow larger as the effectiveness indicator gets closer to maximum effectiveness (and of course it would shrink again if the indicator reached the red area ... as it does today). This combined with the increase in speed I suggested earlier would result in more "tipped" ineffective pitches ... resulting in better contact by the CPU. So, if you intentionally throw an ineffective pitch, fine. But you will have a difficult time keeping from tipping off the batter.

* I don't like your idea of varying the speed of the meter from pitch to pitch (if that was what you were suggesting). It would certainly result in more walks and tipped pitches, but it would take away from the fun ... which would alienate a large part of the audience that EA is after. Varying the speed of the meter from pitch to pitch effectively randomizes the pitch mechanic. This, in my opinion, isn't very realistic. Eliminating certain uncontrollable variables (like wind), if a pitcher were to use the exact same windup and release the ball at the exact same point with the exact same velocity, then he should expect the pitch to cross the plate in the exact same location ... even for bad pitchers. Of course, I'm WAY oversimplifying to make my point. But if the meter speed varied randomly, then any simulation of pitching mechanics has been eliminated. To me, this would turn pitching into an excercise in frustration ... guessing at the meter speed to make an accurate pitch. There has to be consistency in the mechanic ... it's the beauty of the interface as it is now. EA just needs to find a way for human pitchers to give up more home runs and walks.

Of course, I'm just brainstorming. I'm sure that many people that participate in this forum (probably with alot more knowledge of baseball) could shoot a 100 holes into my suggestions as well.

Anyway ... I hope you're enjoying this year's video baseball season!!

[BaldEaglePride]

Re: All-Star Break: Report

Joe -

I appreciate that you like the post. I can also appreciate that there are some areas, that if addressed, could make the game better. But, perhaps you're being a bit too critical of EA's brand new engine ...

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
The bottom line is there needs to be more skill involved in pitching to the cpu.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

... In fact, EA has added more skill to the pitching aspect of their game than has been attempted by any other company. It is not simply select, aim, and fire ... as it is with the majority of baseball games out there. In addition, the pitching meter actually makes pitching fun!!! Kudos to EA for putting a refreshing twist on the pitcher/batter confrontation. It's a bit rough around the edges ... but it's a great start!

So on to your major points ...

* I agree that ineffective pitches should result in hits more often than they do. There are a couple of things EA could do here. They could simply code next year's program such that the CPU would hit those pitches better. Or ... they could adjust the accuracy meter even further than I originally suggested. The green accuracy area could start off small, and grow larger as the effectiveness indicator gets closer to maximum effectiveness (and of course it would shrink again if the indicator reached the red area ... as it does today). This combined with the increase in speed I suggested earlier would result in more "tipped" ineffective pitches ... resulting in better contact by the CPU. So, if you intentionally throw an ineffective pitch, fine. But you will have a difficult time keeping from tipping off the batter.

* I don't like your idea of varying the speed of the meter from pitch to pitch (if that was what you were suggesting). It would certainly result in more walks and tipped pitches, but it would take away from the fun ... which would alienate a large part of the audience that EA is after. Varying the speed of the meter from pitch to pitch effectively randomizes the pitch mechanic. This, in my opinion, isn't very realistic. Eliminating certain uncontrollable variables (like wind), if a pitcher were to use the exact same windup and release the ball at the exact same point with the exact same velocity, then he should expect the pitch to cross the plate in the exact same location ... even for bad pitchers. Of course, I'm WAY oversimplifying to make my point. But if the meter speed varied randomly, then any simulation of pitching mechanics has been eliminated. To me, this would turn pitching into an excercise in frustration ... guessing at the meter speed to make an accurate pitch. There has to be consistency in the mechanic ... it's the beauty of the interface as it is now. EA just needs to find a way for human pitchers to give up more home runs and walks.

Of course, I'm just brainstorming. I'm sure that many people that participate in this forum (probably with alot more knowledge of baseball) could shoot a 100 holes into my suggestions as well.

Anyway ... I hope you're enjoying this year's video baseball season!!

[Dino5525]

Re: All-Star Break: Report

What about different cursor speeds for different types of pitches? If a guy has a great slider it would be relativley slow. If he has a so-so slider the speed would be faster to refect that. I wish games like this had public beta testers like the folks here. EA is so close here, I can taste it!

[Dino5525]

Re: All-Star Break: Report

What about different cursor speeds for different types of pitches? If a guy has a great slider it would be relativley slow. If he has a so-so slider the speed would be faster to refect that. I wish games like this had public beta testers like the folks here. EA is so close here, I can taste it!

[joestros]

Re: All-Star Break: Report

BaldEagle, I wasn't being overly critical of EA's pitching system. I also think it's great, I was just saying it needs some work. I still feel pitching is too easy overall.

I feel there needs to be a way to force us to throw more ineffective pitches which would result in more HRs/extra base hits. Right now it's too easy NOT to throw one, even when powering up the meter. Only powering the meter half to less than half should result in batting practice for the batters.

I was not suggesting varying the meter speed from *pitch-to-pitch*, but varying it once and while for pitchers with poor control. There seems to be no difference between great pitchers and poor ones, so I think there needs to be a way to really get you to walk or throw mistake pitches more often with bad pitchers. Right now I never walk a batter, even with bad pitchers. I can work the count for a K occasionally, but in order to walk a guy you really need to mess up which is hard to do. Pitches are either a strike, or a ball and nibbling is hard to do.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
But if the meter speed varied randomly, then any simulation of pitching mechanics has been eliminated.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

I feel this would increase the simulation aspect since some pitchers with good control would throw better than those with poor control. As I said, right now all pitchers pretty much have the same green accuracy zones and throwing strikes is too easy. Major league pitchers should be able to throw strikes on a regular basis, but throwing *effective* strikes *routinely* seperates the elite from the pack.

I feel by keeping the speed the same every pitch a person with decent hand-eye coordination can hit the green on a regular basis. Making the green smaller would help though. I finally got a pitcher to tire the other day and his green shrunk quite a bit, the speed increased and I was giving up more mistake pitches which was really fun.

Anyway, EA is really close to having a great game, and I hope they can tweak things even more next year.

-Joe

[joestros]

Re: All-Star Break: Report

BaldEagle, I wasn't being overly critical of EA's pitching system. I also think it's great, I was just saying it needs some work. I still feel pitching is too easy overall.

I feel there needs to be a way to force us to throw more ineffective pitches which would result in more HRs/extra base hits. Right now it's too easy NOT to throw one, even when powering up the meter. Only powering the meter half to less than half should result in batting practice for the batters.

I was not suggesting varying the meter speed from *pitch-to-pitch*, but varying it once and while for pitchers with poor control. There seems to be no difference between great pitchers and poor ones, so I think there needs to be a way to really get you to walk or throw mistake pitches more often with bad pitchers. Right now I never walk a batter, even with bad pitchers. I can work the count for a K occasionally, but in order to walk a guy you really need to mess up which is hard to do. Pitches are either a strike, or a ball and nibbling is hard to do.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
But if the meter speed varied randomly, then any simulation of pitching mechanics has been eliminated.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

I feel this would increase the simulation aspect since some pitchers with good control would throw better than those with poor control. As I said, right now all pitchers pretty much have the same green accuracy zones and throwing strikes is too easy. Major league pitchers should be able to throw strikes on a regular basis, but throwing *effective* strikes *routinely* seperates the elite from the pack.

I feel by keeping the speed the same every pitch a person with decent hand-eye coordination can hit the green on a regular basis. Making the green smaller would help though. I finally got a pitcher to tire the other day and his green shrunk quite a bit, the speed increased and I was giving up more mistake pitches which was really fun.

Anyway, EA is really close to having a great game, and I hope they can tweak things even more next year.

-Joe

[BaldEaglePride]

Re: All-Star Break: Report

Hey Joe -

I was hoping I misunderstood you. That's great that you enjoy the game.

As for your suggestion of varying the speed of the meter occasionally for average pitchers ... while I definitely think it would work to enhance the simulation aspect of the game, I don't think, from a gameplay perspective, EA would think it viable. The only reason I say that is because, as I mentioned, it does change the pitching mechanic ... even if it only does so rarely. I just think this will be a tough sell to those that are just looking for a fun game of baseball (without all the simulation aspects). As I believe EA is trying to strike a balance between realism and fun, I think that many people would get frustrated if the meter occasionally (randomly) zoomed by because the CPU thought it was time for the pitcher to throw a bad pitch. But, that's just me.

It'll be interesting to see what EA does next year to improve upon their "rookie" engine!

[BaldEaglePride]

Re: All-Star Break: Report

Hey Joe -

I was hoping I misunderstood you. That's great that you enjoy the game.

As for your suggestion of varying the speed of the meter occasionally for average pitchers ... while I definitely think it would work to enhance the simulation aspect of the game, I don't think, from a gameplay perspective, EA would think it viable. The only reason I say that is because, as I mentioned, it does change the pitching mechanic ... even if it only does so rarely. I just think this will be a tough sell to those that are just looking for a fun game of baseball (without all the simulation aspects). As I believe EA is trying to strike a balance between realism and fun, I think that many people would get frustrated if the meter occasionally (randomly) zoomed by because the CPU thought it was time for the pitcher to throw a bad pitch. But, that's just me.

It'll be interesting to see what EA does next year to improve upon their "rookie" engine!