Nick Swisher is a Yankee

[Dice]

Re: Nick Swisher is a Yankee

The White Sox got Swisher for nothing? They traded their top minor league pitcher in Gio Gonzalez and a pretty good young outfielder in Ryan Sweeney. The A's were able to get a lot more out of trading Swisher than the White Sox were.

When you reference us giving away our top minor league pitcher, that's like saying, 'I found the tallest midget in the world.' The White Sox minor league system right now sucks. And it has sucked the last two years. Gio Gonzalez, at best, will be no more than a good 4th starter in his career. In his 10 games he played with the big club, he's got a whopping ERA of 7.68. OK, so your going to say, 'He's a prospect. You can't expect him to be an all-star pitcher in his first year in the majors?' Your right. BUT why was his record 8-7 with an ERA of 4.24 in AAA? That doen't seem like someone who's ready for the majors anytime soon.

As far as Sweeny, he had a decent season last year but why would someone who is considered a power hitter hit only 5 HR's in 384 AB's last year? Heck, we got 8 HR's from Brian Anderson in 181 AB's and he's not even hitting at major league level.

I'm pretty sure the majority of White Sox fans weren't angry when we gave up these guys. It wasn't like we were trading away David Price and Evan Longoria. We traded away guys who will be marginal players during their prime.

[snepp]

Re: Nick Swisher is a Yankee

Gio Gonzalez, at best, will be no more than a good 4th starter in his career. In his 10 games he played with the big club, he's got a whopping ERA of 7.68. OK, so your going to say, 'He's a prospect. You can't expect him to be an all-star pitcher in his first year in the majors?' Your right. BUT why was his record 8-7 with an ERA of 4.24 in AAA? That doen't seem like someone who's ready for the majors anytime soon.

Hurray for ignoring context! The PCL as a whole hits .277/.348/.444/.792, good for a league ERA of 4.85. That would be roughly equivalent to Matt Cain's 3.76 ERA compared to the NL or Mark Beurhle's 3.79 compared to the AL. Giving up less than a hit per inning and getting more than a K per inning in AAA is nothing to scoff at, the ERA is largely a product of the environment.

[Dice]

Re: Nick Swisher is a Yankee

Hurray for ignoring context! The PCL as a whole hits .277/.348/.444/.792, good for a league ERA of 4.85. That would be roughly equivalent to Matt Cain's 3.76 ERA compared to the NL or Mark Beurhle's 3.79 compared to the AL. Giving up less than a hit per inning and getting more than a K per inning in AAA is nothing to scoff at, the ERA is largely a product of the environment.

Are you kidding me? You going to tell me that his 4.24 ERA in AAA is comparable to Matt Cain or Mark Buerhle's ERA in the majors?

The PCL is just what it is...a minor league system. If your an average PCL player, chances are your not going to stick on a major league roster. Yes, the ERA in the PCL is high because there are a lot of bad baseball players in that league. And that's why only a few minor league players become successful major league players because when they were in the minors, they dominated. It's been going on for years.

Yes, you'll find a couple of dominate minor league players that fail on the major league level but rarley do I see a good major league player that had average-to-bad minor league stats.

[soltrain]

Re: Nick Swisher is a Yankee

Are you kidding me? You going to tell me that his 4.24 ERA in AAA is comparable to Matt Cain or Mark Buerhle's ERA in the majors?

He actually didn't say that at all. He was saying that you can't just look at Cain and Mark's ERA and say they had "exact" seasons because they play in two completely different leagues. Just like you looked at Gio's ERA and said it was awful - when it was actually pretty good for the league he was in.

And saying we gave up nothing for Swisher is flat out denial. We gave up 3 of our top ten (possibly top five) prospects. While I'm glad we traded Swisher away, it's easy to see that Kenny made a mistake in trading for Swisher in the first place - especially for that price.

[snepp]

Re: Nick Swisher is a Yankee

He actually didn't say that at all. He was saying that you can't just look at Cain and Mark's ERA and say they had "exact" seasons because they play in two completely different leagues. Just like you looked at Gio's ERA and said it was awful - when it was actually pretty good for the league he was in.

Thank you, that's exactly what I said. It's a matter of context. Gio's season in AAA was very good. Simply looking at his ERA and saying it wasn't is very short sighted and highly misleading. The Twins have minor league pitchers that constantly post low-3 ERA's at numerous levels, but basically all of their minor league teams play in pitcher-friendly environments. The same thing went for when the Twins had Salt Lake as an affiliate (in the PCL), they had hitters posting crazy numbers who could never approach that kind of production in the majors.

[Dice]

Re: Nick Swisher is a Yankee

He actually didn't say that at all. He was saying that you can't just look at Cain and Mark's ERA and say they had "exact" seasons because they play in two completely different leagues. Just like you looked at Gio's ERA and said it was awful - when it was actually pretty good for the league he was in.

And saying we gave up nothing for Swisher is flat out denial. We gave up 3 of our top ten (possibly top five) prospects. While I'm glad we traded Swisher away, it's easy to see that Kenny made a mistake in trading for Swisher in the first place - especially for that price.

OK. So we gave up marginal players for Swisher. To me that's close to nothing because all those guys at the peak of their careers are not going to be all-stars. And as I stated before, giving up 3 of our top ten prospects is nothing because our farm system sucks. We've been either last or close to last in farm system rankings by almost every major publication.

[Dice]

Re: Nick Swisher is a Yankee

Thank you, that's exactly what I said. It's a matter of context. Gio's season in AAA was very good. Simply looking at his ERA and saying it wasn't is very short sighted and highly misleading. The Twins have minor league pitchers that constantly post low-3 ERA's at numerous levels, but basically all of their minor league teams play in pitcher-friendly environments. The same thing went for when the Twins had Salt Lake as an affiliate (in the PCL), they had hitters posting crazy numbers who could never approach that kind of production in the majors.

OK. I understand that. But as you stated if the PCL league ERA is 4.85 and Gonzalez's ERA was 4.24, that too me is slightly above average. HURRAY FOR GIO! He just made over the league minimum by 0.61. Not good enough for me. Someone with major league ability would post some substantial numbers in AAA. Especially AAA, where the league is flooded with either washed up prospects who have more options or guys who are still trying to crack a major league roster after so-many season playing professional baseball.