Bonds and "The Clear"

[Jet Sufferer]

Re: Bonds and "The Clear"

Be sure to tell all of your former underage college drinking buddies, especially if you were one of them. Hypocrisy at its finest.

I think you need to look up the word hypocrisy.

Underage drinking is illegal.

Steroids were illegal while Bonds and others were using them, I see no analogy because there is none there.

Just because baseball didn't make specific drugs "illegal" that were illegal by FEDERAL LAW doesn't make them legal to use to enhance your performance in baseball. Just because college kids aren't charged with underage drinking doesn't make the act legal.

Or was I missing something? What point were you trying to make?

How many pitchers not juiced were run out of the league because they couldn't get these jacked up monsters out, they're the victims, not Bonds and company.

[Blzer]

Re: Bonds and "The Clear"

Meh, it was a rough point. I was just saying that there are probably underage drinkers here trying to get by the "MLB made it illegal after" thing with the "it was already illegal in the U.S." Meanwhile, they're sitting there with their 40 or what have you.

[bkrich83]

Re: Bonds and "The Clear"

Meh, it was a rough point. I was just saying that there are probably underage drinkers here trying to get by the "MLB made it illegal after" thing with the "it was already illegal in the U.S." Meanwhile, they're sitting there with their 40 or what have you.

I never spent 40 dollars on a ticket to watch an underage kid drink a 40.

[Jet Sufferer]

Re: Bonds and "The Clear"

I never spent 40 dollars on a ticket to watch an underage kid drink a 40.

Boy, have I been overpaying. :wink:

[The Chef]

Re: Bonds and "The Clear"

Just to clear up this "legal" business. Just because baseball didn't declare them "illegal" means nothing, it was still a federal crime! Does baseball have to declare murder on the field illegal?? I had a friend do time for these drugs while they were still "legal" in baseball.

All of these statements are crafted by lawyers and they're all subtle lies. "It wasn't illegal", "It was prescribed", "I didn't know what it was", "It was in an over the counter substance", "We used it to recover", I could go on forever.

What they don't tell you is that you can change 1/10th of 1 percent of the molecular structure of a drug, it's a "new" drug hence it "wasn't on the list".

All of these guys know exactly what they're doing, they're doing drugs, because they know the other guy is doing drugs, or if they don't use drugs they might be out of a big money job. The system is screwed, you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

The NFL is rife with drugs, unless you believe humans have "evolved" 100 generations in the past 30 years. The only thing evolving is the drugs.

I quoted this post but in reality I agree with every single post you have made in here, I couldnt possibly agree with you more in fact. Steroids not being illegal in the MLB when Bonds was doing it means nothing if they were illegal in the United States.

[EnigmaNemesis]

Re: Bonds and "The Clear"

I dont care what anyone says. Andro is not a steroid. It is not illegal in the USA, and no amount of any MLB bullsh*t can persuade me.

Hell, Ruth showed up drunk to his games, and Dock Ellis pitching a LSD no hitter. No one seemed to give two sh*ts. Or even Spaceman Lee saying all the Amphetamines that were used.

I think the "juiced ball/dead ball" situation baseball and the fact they KNEW about these PEDs the whole time, but played the ignorance card is more of an issue.

It is an utter joke. And all the while Selig and his poor excuse of a commish, will still screw the hits king over, with his pathetic old man grudge.

[Jet Sufferer]

Re: Bonds and "The Clear"

I dont care what anyone says. Andro is not a steroid. It is not illegal in the USA, and no amount of any MLB bullsh*t can persuade me.

Hell, Ruth showed up drunk to his games, and Dock Ellis pitching a LSD no hitter. No one seemed to give two sh*ts. Or even Spaceman Lee saying all the Amphetamines that were used.

I think the "juiced ball/dead ball" situation baseball had the fact they KNEW about these PEDs the whole time, but played the ignorance card is more of an issue.

It is an utter joke. And all the while Selig and his poor excuse of a commish, will still screw the hits king over, with his pathetic old man grudge.

It's not MLB calling Andro a steroid, it's science. Like I mentioned before, these "designer" steroids bear little difference from their "illegal" counterparts. This is how they avoid detection, they change the structure of the drug minutely and wala! "legal" drug. McGwire and Sosa were jacked to the moon! I was laughing during their "historic" chase, it was so obvious.

You're right about hypocrites, but don't stop at Selig. All sports are hypocrites when it comes to drugs, they're helpless to stop them.

As for the "Hit King", he's unofficially in the Hall, everyone knows his stats. If he admitted straight away he would be in right now, instead he continually lied about his transgressions, which were serious. He dishonored the game, he was an out of control gambler and if you know about gambling addicts there is no way to believe his bets had no influence on his managing decisions, they surely did, the addiction/compulsion is much stronger than his integrity as a manager. He just should have confessed to the initial report and asked for forgiveness, he handled it poorly, as addicts are wont to do.

[GiantKing]

Re: Bonds and "The Clear"

Just to clear up this "legal" business. Just because baseball didn't declare them "illegal" means nothing, it was still a federal crime! Does baseball have to declare murder on the field illegal?? I had a friend do time for these drugs while they were still "legal" in baseball.

All of these statements are crafted by lawyers and they're all subtle lies. "It wasn't illegal", "It was prescribed", "I didn't know what it was", "It was in an over the counter substance", "We used it to recover", I could go on forever.

What they don't tell you is that you can change 1/10th of 1 percent of the molecular structure of a drug, it's a "new" drug hence it "wasn't on the list".

All of these guys know exactly what they're doing, they're doing drugs, because they know the other guy is doing drugs, or if they don't use drugs they might be out of a big money job. The system is screwed, you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

The NFL is rife with drugs, unless you believe humans have "evolved" 100 generations in the past 30 years. The only thing evolving is the drugs.

What I got out of the article is that they are saying that The Clear was not illegal under federal law not just MLB. So at the time they are talking about with Bonds, even if he said he had taken it, it would not have mattered because it wasn't illegal under any law. Now I have no idea if that article is correct or not but from the testimony of some of the investigators it seems like The Clear was technically legal under both federal law and MLB even though the ethics of it is still wrong.

[Blzer]

Re: Bonds and "The Clear"

Is there another name for "The Clear"? Do most people just generalize it as "flax seed oil"?

[faster]

Re: Bonds and "The Clear"

I think you need to look up the word hypocrisy.

Underage drinking is illegal.

Steroids were illegal while Bonds and others were using them, I see no analogy because there is none there.

Just because baseball didn't make specific drugs "illegal" that were illegal by FEDERAL LAW doesn't make them legal to use to enhance your performance in baseball. Just because college kids aren't charged with underage drinking doesn't make the act legal.

Or was I missing something? What point were you trying to make?

How many pitchers not juiced were run out of the league because they couldn't get these jacked up monsters out, they're the victims, not Bonds and company.

WRONG. The drugs Bonds took were NOT illegal by Federal standards either. It's too bad that most people have no clue about steroids, the laws, etc.

[faster]

Re: Bonds and "The Clear"

Is there another name for "The Clear"? Do most people just generalize it as "flax seed oil"?

No. Flax seed oil is completely legal, period.

[Jet Sufferer]

Re: Bonds and "The Clear"

WRONG. The drugs Bonds took were NOT illegal by Federal standards either. It's too bad that most people have no clue about steroids, the laws, etc.

You know what drugs he took? He's got a different lie every month.

If you read what I wrote about how it's all a joke because they change the content of these drugs constantly and create "new" drugs, that aren't on "the list" or "illegal".

I know all about steroids, and the laws. Unless you're his lawyer I don't know why you're defending him. Did you read what I said in this thread about them changing the drugs ever so slightly to create "new" drugs, etc.

[faster]

Re: Bonds and "The Clear"

You know what drugs he took? He's got a different lie every month.

If you read what I wrote about how it's all a joke because they change the content of these drugs constantly and create "new" drugs, that aren't on "the list" or "illegal".

I know all about steroids, and the laws. Unless you're his lawyer I don't know why you're defending him. Did you read what I said in this thread about them changing the drugs ever so slightly to create "new" drugs, etc.

Why am I defending him? Well, for starters I don't believe steroids are the evil everyone else does. I'm very close to the supplement industry, know hundreds of people taking them (and have taken them for up 25+ years), and find it amusing most people are grossly misinformed. Bonds actually was once a favorite player of mine but it wasn't his supplement use that turned me sour on the man, it was his utter lack of class and dispicability. Still, for bonds to get the heat that he does is ridiculous. He's singled out because of the person that he is. Even though I greatly dislike the man, just about every pro athlete in various sports leagues is taking something.

And do I know what Bonds actually took? Hah... nope, no one but he and Greg Anderson actually know for sure. I do know the man who was indicted for creating and supplying the cream and the clear to balco though, Patrick Arnold. that's a whole other story... a pretty good one actually.

sorry, i get pretty sick of joe user who has no clue about these substances, assumes they are SOOOO bad like the boogey man because they buy into the media hype, and have no clue about what really goes on in the industry. a good starting point for most people would be to watch the movie Bigger, Faster, Stronger. it at least will give you fairly even look at the supplement industry and sports.

[Jet Sufferer]

Re: Bonds and "The Clear"

Why am I defending him? Well, for starters I don't believe steroids are the evil everyone else does. I'm very close to the supplement industry, know hundreds of people taking them (and have taken them for up 25+ years), and find it amusing most people are grossly misinformed. Bonds actually was once a favorite player of mine but it wasn't his supplement use that turned me sour on the man, it was his utter lack of class and dispicability. Still, for bonds to get the heat that he does is ridiculous. He's singled out because of the person that he is. Even though I greatly dislike the man, just about every pro athlete in various sports leagues is taking something.

And do I know what Bonds actually took? Hah... nope, no one but he and Greg Anderson actually know for sure. I do know the man who was indicted for creating and supplying the cream and the clear to balco though, Patrick Arnold. that's a whole other story... a pretty good one actually.

sorry, i get pretty sick of joe user who has no clue about these substances, assumes they are SOOOO bad like the boogey man because they buy into the media hype, and have no clue about what really goes on in the industry. a good starting point for most people would be to watch the movie Bigger, Faster, Stronger. it at least will give you fairly even look at the supplement industry and sports.

LOL

The Movie Bigger, Faster, Stronger was STOLEN from my friend.

The name of the movie, the outline, format, talking points, everything. He was pitching it for years, his ex-agents did the deal with Cuban, it would have been much better if my friend made it.

I know everything that's going on and has gone on forever, I have access to some of the top doctors in the field, people published in the New England Journal of Medicine about the subject, people hired by the NFL, I could go on forever.

I have a big problem with drugs in sports, I've outlined some of them in this thread and others. We're not talking about "supplements", we're talking about serious drugs that give serious results and the "natural" athlete is at a huge disadvantage.

[faster]

Re: Bonds and "The Clear"

LOL

The Movie Bigger, Faster, Stronger was STOLEN from my friend.

The name of the movie, the outline, format, talking points, everything. He was pitching it for years, his ex-agents did the deal with Cuban, it would have been much better if my friend made it.

I know everything that's going on and has gone on forever, I have access to some of the top doctors in the field, people published in the New England Journal of Medicine about the subject, people hired by the NFL, I could go on forever.

I have a big problem with drugs in sports, I've outlined some of them in this thread and others. We're not talking about "supplements", we're talking about serious drugs that give serious results and the "natural" athlete is at a huge disadvantage.

tehre are natural athletes out there? LOL!

That's my big complaint... unfair advantage. if you do the juice is absolutely gives you an unfair adavantage, but so does your genetic makeup, right? i guess you can't control that however. as far as the real dangers, they are highly overrated even though you can't find long term studies. at the same time, the uneducated can get themselves into trouble. tough situation.