Does Anybody Really Care about who juiced...does it matter?

[MaverickisBack]

Re: Does Anybody Really Care about who juiced...does it matter?

If you are a TRUE fan of the game of Baseball, of course it matters. And anyone that has ever juiced should never even be considered for the HOF, they have betrayed the integrity of the game, and to me that means much more than their lofty stats.

If it is "okay" or "forgivable" where does it end? Might as well start giving injections to junior high prospects...

If this is the case then all racist, alcholics, spittballers, bat corkers, ball scuffers should all go as well. They all took away from the "integrity"

btw...wtf does "integrity" mean. Guys go on a feild and play a game. Some are good some arent. As long as they played hard...and even that is subject....what does it matter.

Winning is winning...ONLY losers complain about who wins

[MaverickisBack]

Re: Does Anybody Really Care about who juiced...does it matter?

Um, Ruth had the HR numbers all throughout his career even when he was a pitcher with the Red Sox he was smashing balls out of the park. He kept that pace up throughout his career. Bonds was a fairly good power hitter who suddenly acquired super human power in the latter half of his career. That's NOT natural.

sorry dude...look at when he hit 60 my friend..

also...McGwire was putting up incredilbe numbers since day one...rookie record for 49 homers. The guy had family problems and injury that hurt him. almost every season McG. was on pace to break the homer record at some point. So his numbers arent so incredible...

Plus the year Bonds supposedly took roids was when McG and Sammy went off. Bonds didnt hit 30....he hit 49 prior to the steroids. All the way back in 96...skinny Barry hit 46....where you ask...in pitcher friendly SF.

Bonds was a freak of athleteic nature from day one...Btw...look at Barry's dad...he clearly has great genetics...

Plus strenght doesnt equal hand eye coordination...dudes batting average increased....if roids helps batting average...I want Ichiro tested immediately

[Brandon13]

Re: Does Anybody Really Care about who juiced...does it matter?

lol...yeah, last guy to do something like that was....drum roll please....

Babe Ruth. except Barry was a better athlete who took better care of himself

http://www.baseball-reference.com/r/ruthba01.shtml

Ruth didn't have an unheard of spike in production at the age of 36 and maintain it until he was 39. If you can find any other example of a non suspected steroid user playing at a level well beyond anything he ever did in his career prior to his latter 30s, I'll be highly, highly surprised.

[Brandon13]

Re: Does Anybody Really Care about who juiced...does it matter?

sorry dude...look at when he hit 60 my friend..

When he was 32? How does that help your argument?

[SPTO]

Re: Does Anybody Really Care about who juiced...does it matter?

sorry dude...look at when he hit 60 my friend..

also...McGwire was putting up incredilbe numbers since day one...rookie record for 49 homers. The guy had family problems and injury that hurt him. almost every season McG. was on pace to break the homer record at some point. So his numbers arent so incredible...

Plus the year Bonds supposedly took roids was when McG and Sammy went off. Bonds didnt hit 30....he hit 49 prior to the steroids. All the way back in 96...skinny Barry hit 46....where you ask...in pitcher friendly SF.

Bonds was a freak of athleteic nature from day one...Btw...look at Barry's dad...he clearly has great genetics...

Plus strenght doesnt equal hand eye coordination...dudes batting average increased....if roids helps batting average...I want Ichiro tested immediately

Ruth was 32 the prime years for baseball players are considered to be 28-32 years of age so he was clearly in his prime. Ruth wasn't an old man by any stretch.

Also Bonds had his 49 HRs in 2000 at age 35 when he was already on the juice so let's not go making up a different timeline ok? I did goof up as Bonds did have a couple 40 HR seasons before then but they were anomalous. Also when he started hitting them regularly started in '96 I believe he started dabbling in the stuff around '97 or '98 so again kind of murky waters.

I'm not going to convince you otherwise so i'll just ask you this:

If some guy came up to you and told you he could make you a superstar in your sport but you'd die a painful death at a relatively young age would you do it?

[Brandon13]

Re: Does Anybody Really Care about who juiced...does it matter?

If some guy came up to you and told you he could make you a superstar in your sport but you'd die a painful death at a relatively young age would you do it?

I'm not him but I'll answer anyway. I don't really accept the premise, though. Taking steroids is in no way a guaranteed death sentence. But if I felt I most likely would not make the big money without 'roids, yeah, I'd probably try them.

[SPTO]

Re: Does Anybody Really Care about who juiced...does it matter?

I'm not him but I'll answer anyway. I don't really accept the premise, though. Taking steroids is in no way a guaranteed death sentence. But if I felt I most likely would not make the big money without 'roids, yeah, I'd probably try them.

Yeah the premise may not be 100% accurate but in most cases it turns out that way. It all depends on the amount of roids you took and such.

Still that answer tells a lot about society no?

[Brandon13]

Re: Does Anybody Really Care about who juiced...does it matter?

Yeah the premise may not be 100% accurate but in most cases it turns out that way. It all depends on the amount of roids you took and such.

Still that answer tells a lot about society no?

The chance for a few million dollars would corrupt most people, I'm sure.

[Jet Sufferer]

Re: Does Anybody Really Care about who juiced...does it matter?

I personally dont care if these guys juiced or not. Its just baseball. Its a game meant for entertainment. As far as the steroids with kids...I dont care...its not an epidemic. And frankly, most roids are taken by non-athletes. The larger problem is the negative body image kids have...and frankly i blame Hollywood and air brushing far more.

Also...as I have said before there are NO studies to link steroids (properly used) to death or serious long term problems.

The real problem is the amount of tax payer money wasted on trials for Clemens and Bonds...and if Bonds is guilty and does jail time....we have to pay for that too. Sorry I dont want my jails filled with future HOF who have never hurt anyone.

As far as competitive advantage...who cares. Rich kids have competitive advantages in life over poor kids. White kids have competitive advantages over Blacks in life. All of these have a much larger impact in life then does what A-Rod put in his *** in 2003.

George Bush is the greatest example...he would not be where he was if it wasnt for the competitive advantage of his father and his family wealth. His competitive advantage has screwed over the country for years to come. Bonds advantage...led to an increase in kayak sales in the Bay area. THe difference is that Barry had to also use hard work...whereas Bush did not. Ironically, Bonds is on trial he is responsible for the deaths of no one and the eroding of no financial markets or the decrease in the appeal of America.

All this steroid talk is just to mask the real competitive advantages in our society. Remember when Bush went on the air and talked about the need to end steroid use in baseballl....i wish he put as much thought into WMDs, Iraq, the war on terror and the near recession he played a role in. But I guess HGH warrants the Presidents attention as much.

My point is....lets get off of it. Its non-important.

I hate to throw this in...but its TOTALLY racially charged

Sosa, Bonds, A-Rod, Palmerio, Canseco, Sheffeild vs Clemens, McGwire, Pettite, Giambi

I find it interesting that the Blacks and Latino's have gotten WAAAY more heat then their white counterparts. They ALL did the same thing. BUt imo estimation...one group is getting alot more flack

You're really outspoken on a subject that you obviously know little about.

Stop spreading lies and disinformation and basically talking out or your arse. There are tons of studies about the dangers of steroids and other PE's both physically and mentally, I happen to know the authors of books about the subject, doctors with articles in the New England Journal of Medicine and people hired by the NFL to try and help deal with current and former players with steroid related issues, both physical and mental.

Young athletes would be wise to ignore anything you have to say about the subject, injecting politics and race into your twisted "theories" does little to help your total lack of credibility.

I know nothing about ballet, so I don't spout off about it with my own crackpot theories or start threads about it.

[Cebby]

Re: Does Anybody Really Care about who juiced...does it matter?

I think it might matter, but it depends on the widespread use.

With the recent developments that are really starting to support the 75-90% usages thrown out a few years back, then no, I don't think it matters. If the MLB was telling the truth a few years back and the number was highly contained, then it would matter to me.

[ZB9]

Re: Does Anybody Really Care about who juiced...does it matter?

it's not a huge deal to me. There is such a fine line between what drugs and PED's are deemed "cheating" and which ones are not.

For example, players have been using greenies and amphetamines for years and years. That is an advantage also.

Athletes are going to use whatever they can get away with, especially with the money involved. I blame MLB for their lack of a policy and the public witch hunt that has followed.

[JEM]

Re: Does Anybody Really Care about who juiced...does it matter?

I always look at it like this... Using steroids is like using an aluminum bat while everyone else is using wood. Routine fly outs turn into homers , warning track power turns into a monster HRs.

In short.. I care.

[ZB9]

Re: Does Anybody Really Care about who juiced...does it matter?

I always look at it like this... Using steroids is like using an aluminum bat while everyone else is using wood. Routine fly outs turn into homers , warning track power turns into a monster HRs.

not when the pitchers are juicing also...as well as the outfielders that are chasing down balls

it was a pretty even playing field. Players were juicing across the board.

[JEM]

Re: Does Anybody Really Care about who juiced...does it matter?

not when the pitchers are juicing also...as well as the outfielders that are chasing down balls

it was a pretty even playing field. Players were juicing across the board.

Heh. True but that really doesnt change my point though especially when there are alot of good players who didnt use.

[BigDofBA]

Re: Does Anybody Really Care about who juiced...does it matter?

To me it's not that big of a deal. Athletes try to gain an advantage in every sport.

Tiger Woods got laser eye surgery that allows him to see better than a normal person. Eyesight is extremely important in golf. Why isn't that considered cheating? It's performance enhancing.

Rocky juiced when he beat the Russian. Hulk Hogan juiced when he beat the Iron Sheik. Arnold juiced when he beat the Predator. It's the American way baby!