If A-Rod breaks the HR record...

[MaverickisBack]

Re: If A-Rod breaks the HR record...

Though he did play in Ball Parks that were freaking HUGE!

Who cares....he hit against weaker signfiicantly weaker competition.

Yeah he was a jerk, but you really think the color of his skin doesn't ALSO play a part in that dislike?

Of course...i will say it time and time again. when McGwire and Sosa saved baseball on roids it was ok...but Barry changing the color of the record books was something totally different.

if Arod breaks the record then to me he's the home run king.

AGREE!!!!!

If the books matter then Gibson might not be the HR king since most of his accomplishments aren't documented on paper. Many of the numbers surrounding Gibson are "guesstimates" as there is no game by game data regarding his accomplishments. He could have hit anywhere from 600-800 HR's....nobody really knows for fact. It's also been reported that his 80 HR's in a season is not factual. Many reports list his highest season total as 69 (against all levels of competition...some good, some very poor). This is certainly not a knock on Gibson as all the research I've done on him show that he was without a doubt, an excellent baseball player. It's just that his stats are a bit fuzzy.

If you're really interested in the Negro Leagues, come to Pittsburgh and visit the sports museum here. They have a large section regarding the Negro Leagues and some really excellent videos. Since it's Pittsburgh, the focus is on the Crawfords and Grays. My grandfather has told me a ton of stories about Gibson, Leonard, Paige, Ruth, Dimaggio etc... He saw them all in person and is one guy who knows his baseball history - even at the age of 91.

The point is that Ruth's record is just as suspect as Bonds' record...ok well Sadaru Oh hit 868 homers in the Japanese league. With the success of DiceK, Ichiro and Matsui its clear that the Japanese leagues are comparable to the Big leagues....so he is the REAL homerun king

[Alliball]

Re: If A-Rod breaks the HR record...

Be careful dude...whenever you talk about racism in sports people will look at you like YOU are the racist in the country and in this forum especially. Kinda the ultimate sign of racism imo (pretend it doesnt exist) instead of facing up to it. .Yes anyone who has eyes and isnt blind can see that peoples dislike for BOnds was about race. McGwire juiced everyone knew it since the bash brother days...but when he broke the record it was OK...I WONDER WHY? Barry smashing every good ole boy record made people upset. When steroids was saving baseball (ala the McGwire/Sosa race) it was ok. When steroids was changing the color of the record books...well that when people need to be tested....go figure.

It's funny how you refer to Sosa's chase for the single season record while talking about the racism towards Bonds. Correct me if I'm wrong but Sosa isn't white or ever off-white. While he and McGwire were chasing down Maris I don't remember him receiving 1/1000th the backlash that Bonds got. Maybe it was because he was likable while Bonds was a grade "A" douche.

[Alliball]

Re: If A-Rod breaks the HR record...

Yeah he was a jerk, but you really think the color of his skin doesn't ALSO play a part in that dislike?

I don't recall Sosa catching any heat. But then again maybe I watched a different HR chase in '98 then some in here.

[PrettyT11]

Re: If A-Rod breaks the HR record...

It's funny how you refer to Sosa's chase for the single season record while talking about the racism towards Bonds. Correct me if I'm wrong but Sosa isn't white or ever off-white. While he and McGwire were chasing down Maris I don't remember him receiving 1/1000th the backlash that Bonds got. Maybe it was because he was likable while Bonds was a grade "A" douche.

Yes but at the same time he wasn't getting the same love fest the Big Mac was getting. He got carried along for the ride and wasn't ahead of Mac. When Mac hit his 62nd HR he got a 62 vette when Sammy did it he got an extra clap or two. See the difference??

[Unmasked]

Re: If A-Rod breaks the HR record...

Are we seriously talking about racism in baseball? This is almost as ridiculous as when ESPN was talking about how not enough black people play baseball. I don't hear any talk about white people in the NBA, so why is their talk about black people in the MLB?

If this was about NASCAR I'd understand, but come on, baseball? Some of the best players in the league right now aren't white. Pujols is Dominican, Ryan Howard is black, Manny and A-Rod are Dominican.. Color of skin has nothing to do with how good of a player you are. Bonds was a great player but his reputation went down the crapper after the reports of perjury and the overall "douchebagginess" (my new word) of how he walked around.

Nothing to do with race at all, and anyone who thinks otherwise probably has some issues they need to resolve.

[bigeastbumrush]

Re: If A-Rod breaks the HR record...

@ a Mets fan making this thread.

It never gets old...

[Alliball]

Re: If A-Rod breaks the HR record...

Yes but at the same time he wasn't getting the same love fest the Big Mac was getting. He got carried along for the ride and wasn't ahead of Mac. When Mac hit his 62nd HR he got a 62 vette when Sammy did it he got an extra clap or two. See the difference??

Did MLB give McGwire the vet?

[TheMatrix31]

Re: If A-Rod breaks the HR record...

Stop with the race discussions.

[PrettyT11]

Re: If A-Rod breaks the HR record...

Did MLB give McGwire the vet?

The MLB site says the Hall of Fame gave it to him and other sites say it was the Cards. So either way it connects directly to the MLB giving it to him. Plus they had it for him before he even hit it. It was at the stadium waiting and when he hit it they took him for a victory lap in it.

[ChubbyBanana]

Re: If A-Rod breaks the HR record...

I say you count it. It's not like he was the only one doing it, so now you pretty much have to live with the tainted record.

You can't got back and say "well the only pure player was #6 on the HR List" because in actuality you don't know for sure if #3 was not roiding.

This is the way I look at it. Count the records, as much as it sucks, and move on.

Hopefully now with better testing someone will actually break those records and do it while clean.

Just my opinion.

[Alliball]

Re: If A-Rod breaks the HR record...

The MLB site says the Hall of Fame gave it to him and other sites say it was the Cards. So either way it connects directly to the MLB giving it to him. Plus they had it for him before he even hit it. It was at the stadium waiting and when he hit it they took him for a victory lap in it.

Well in reality the HOF and MLB are two very separate and distinct entities. However, I find it rather hard to believe they would have handed that car to McGwire had Sammy got to 62 first.

If it came from the Cards, what are you gonna do? Blame the Cubs for not stepping up for Sammy.

[PrettyT11]

Re: If A-Rod breaks the HR record...

Well in reality the HOF and MLB are two very separate and distinct entities. However, I find it rather hard to believe they would have handed that car to McGwire had Sammy got to 62 first.

If it came from the Cards, what are you gonna do? Blame the Cubs for not stepping up for Sammy.

The Hall of Fame and the MLB are two seperate things but they are connected to one another and go hand and hand. You can't get in the HOF as a player today without playing in the MLB. Either way the HOF gave Mac a brand new 62 vette while they gave Sammy nothing.

[Alliball]

Re: If A-Rod breaks the HR record...

The Hall of Fame and the MLB are two seperate things but they are connected to one another and go hand and hand. You can't get in the HOF as a player today without playing in the MLB. Either way the HOF gave Mac a brand new 62 vette while they gave Sammy nothing.

He got there first, what did you expect? If there were 3 guys lined up to pass 61 should they have had 3 cars waiting? Again, if Sosa gets there first he would have had the new car I'm sure.

[mjb2124]

Re: If A-Rod breaks the HR record...

He got there first, what did you expect? If there were 3 guys lined up to pass 61 should they have had 3 cars waiting? Again, if Sosa gets there first he would have had the new car I'm sure.

Agreed. People are making too much out of some of these things.

[mjb2124]

Re: If A-Rod breaks the HR record...

The point is that Ruth's record is just as suspect as Bonds' record...ok well Sadaru Oh hit 868 homers in the Japanese league. With the success of DiceK, Ichiro and Matsui its clear that the Japanese leagues are comparable to the Big leagues....so he is the REAL homerun king

I didn't realize that was the point you were making as Ruth was not mentioned in the post I quoted. I'm simply talking about Gibson and the numbers he supposedly put up against some very questionable competition. Nothing more, nothing less. A viable question would be was Gibson's competition weaker than Ruth's? I say yes, but your mileage may vary. Point is, both players were great in their own respective right.

If one wants to call Sadaharu Oh the real HR king, they can. I don't agree that the Nippon League is that comparable to MLB, but that's just my opinion. Only the very best from the Nippon League can compete in MLB whereas I believe middle of the road talent in MLB can perform well in the Nippon League (see Tuffy Rhodes who stunk in MLB and is a star in Nippon and has tied the single season HR record...he would have broke it if they didn't pitch around him at the end of the season).