Who will be the next big cheat????

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  • twiztiddarkangelman
    Banned
    • Dec 2008
    • 597

    #1

    Who will be the next big cheat????

    Just throwing this out there because I love friendly debate. I wanted to look on the back of some of the more visible players baseball cards. I was just looking for curious spikes in power because I believe the roids help you more there then anywhere else. But not only spikes but mysterious drop offs as well. Going back to ARod, one could argue in his last mvp year where he hit 54-hr. 156rbi- .314BA-.645 .slg to last years, 35- 103- .302 - 573 Looking further into his career you can see a curious pattern
    Texas 03, last year juicing according to mr. "Truthful" 47 hr- 118 rbi- .298 avg- .600 slg But 04 36 - 106 - .286 - .512 So in his career we have power one year then a drop then power again.

    DAvid Ortiz last year with the Twins = 20 - 75 - .272 - 500
    Sox = 31 - 101 - .288 - 592
    41 - 139 - .301 - 603
    47 - 148 - .300 - 604
    54 - 137 - .287 - 636
    35 - 117 - .332 - 621


    Now none of this is rocket science, but a little thing like this is how speculation starts.
  • Blzer
    Resident film pundit
    • Mar 2004
    • 42520

    #2
    Re: Who will be the next big cheat????

    Maybe Lance Berkman or Jim Edmonds.
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    • OSUFan_88
      Outback Jesus
      • Jul 2004
      • 25642

      #3
      Re: Who will be the next big cheat????

      Manny.
      Too Old To Game Club

      Urban Meyer is lol.

      Comment

      • fugazi
        MVP
        • Apr 2003
        • 3749

        #4
        Re: Who will be the next big cheat????

        how does pujols name never get brought up?

        Berkman...doubt it.

        As for ortiz, he is a lefty hitting at fenway, and he was injured a good bit last year...you should really think about that kind of thing...that is the sort of amateurish reporting i expect from espn.

        i am not absolving or pointing at anyone, just saying....

        Thome, maybe....Mags?
        Australian Rules Football...just sayin'

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        • twiztiddarkangelman
          Banned
          • Dec 2008
          • 597

          #5
          Re: Who will be the next big cheat????

          Originally posted by fugazi
          how does pujols name never get brought up?

          Berkman...doubt it.

          As for ortiz, he is a lefty hitting at fenway, and he was injured a good bit last year...you should really think about that kind of thing...that is the sort of amateurish reporting i expect from espn.

          i am not absolving or pointing at anyone, just saying....

          Thome, maybe....Mags?
          I realize that he was injured last year which is why those stats were not included. Ortiz hit 35 hrs. 117 rbi .332 BA 621 slg in 2007, not 2008 which was the year he had problems with his wrist. You should really look up those kinds of things before expressing opinions not backed up by anything.
          As for Pujols, he could be doing it, I just haven't noticed any power spikes with him. But I could be wrong, just as I could be wrong about Ortiz. But this all is just speculation.

          Comment

          • Blzer
            Resident film pundit
            • Mar 2004
            • 42520

            #6
            Re: Who will be the next big cheat????

            As for Pujols, he could be doing it, I just haven't noticed any power spikes with him. But I could be wrong, just as I could be wrong about Ortiz. But this all is just speculation.
            1) You don't need size/power spikes as evidence that you're juicing. Look at guys like Alex Sanchez, Ryan Franklin, etc. that were suspended with no personal benefit or indication from unnatural growth.

            2) Who's to say he could only have started juicing after being called up to the MLB? He could have done it in the minors, he could have done it in high school. He could be older than he says that he is, making it seem a bit more plausible of him getting access to that kind of stuff in the minors.

            Of course as you said, all is speculation at this point.
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            • twiztiddarkangelman
              Banned
              • Dec 2008
              • 597

              #7
              Re: Who will be the next big cheat????

              Originally posted by Blzer
              1) You don't need size/power spikes as evidence that you're juicing. Look at guys like Alex Sanchez, Ryan Franklin, etc. that were suspended with no personal benefit or indication from unnatural growth.

              2) Who's to say he could only haveAlex Sanchez, Ryan Franklin started juicing after being called up to the MLB? He could have done it in the minors, he could have done it in high school. He could be older than he says that he is, making it seem a bit more plausible of him getting access to that kind of stuff in the minors.

              Of course as you said, all is speculation at this point.
              I'm just using power as my main indicator, but its not the be- all -end- all, its just one tool. As for Alex Sanchez, Ryan Franklin, I didn't even get started on those guys, to me their marginal at best. Talent wise that is.

              Comment

              • BigDofBA
                B**m*r S**n*r!
                • Aug 2002
                • 9066

                #8
                Re: Who will be the next big cheat????

                Originally posted by Blzer
                Maybe Lance Berkman or Jim Edmonds.
                I really don't think those two guys juiced. They look about as natural as you can. I'm not saying it's impossible, just unlikely.

                I am a huge Cardinals fan but I think there is a good chance Pujols juiced.
                ***My Teams***
                NCAA - Oklahoma Sooners
                MLB - St. Louis Cardinals
                NFL - Dallas Cowboys
                NBA - Oklahoma City Thunder

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                • bucksfan07
                  Pro
                  • Nov 2006
                  • 827

                  #9
                  Re: Who will be the next big cheat????

                  I also think Pujols juiced, just not in the majors. He seemed bigger than most guys right out of the minor leagues....

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                  • rsox
                    All Star
                    • Feb 2003
                    • 6309

                    #10
                    Re: Who will be the next big cheat????

                    Originally posted by fugazi
                    how does pujols name never get brought up?

                    Berkman...doubt it.

                    As for ortiz, he is a lefty hitting at fenway, and he was injured a good bit last year...you should really think about that kind of thing...that is the sort of amateurish reporting i expect from espn.

                    i am not absolving or pointing at anyone, just saying....

                    Thome, maybe....Mags?
                    Canseco already called out Mags and of course Ordonez denied it. However most of the players Canseco has called out have turned out to be guilty so we'll see.

                    On a side note on Ortiz:
                    Ortiz had the benefit of having Manny Ramirez hitting behind him during those big offensive years so naturally he would get a lot of good pitches to hit in that situation. We'll see how he does without Manny for a full season this year.

                    Could he have juiced, of course. But he had a lot better lineup around him in Boston than he ever had in Minnesota.

                    Comment

                    • BigDofBA
                      B**m*r S**n*r!
                      • Aug 2002
                      • 9066

                      #11
                      Re: Who will be the next big cheat????

                      I think Ortiz juiced.
                      ***My Teams***
                      NCAA - Oklahoma Sooners
                      MLB - St. Louis Cardinals
                      NFL - Dallas Cowboys
                      NBA - Oklahoma City Thunder

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                      • PrettyT11
                        MVP
                        • Jul 2008
                        • 3220

                        #12
                        Re: Who will be the next big cheat????

                        Originally posted by twiztiddarkangelman
                        I realize that he was injured last year which is why those stats were not included. Ortiz hit 35 hrs. 117 rbi .332 BA 621 slg in 2007, not 2008 which was the year he had problems with his wrist. You should really look up those kinds of things before expressing opinions not backed up by anything.
                        As for Pujols, he could be doing it, I just haven't noticed any power spikes with him. But I could be wrong, just as I could be wrong about Ortiz. But this all is just speculation.
                        Do you realize Ortiz played the whole 07 season on ONE leg. He played the whole year with a torn meniscus in his right knee. So yeah if your front leg had a torn ligament in the knee you would have numbers drop too.

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                        • WazzuRC
                          Go Cougs!
                          • Dec 2002
                          • 5617

                          #13
                          Re: Who will be the next big cheat????

                          Hopefully no one.

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                          • soltrain
                            The Batman
                            • Feb 2003
                            • 6863

                            #14
                            Re: Who will be the next big cheat????

                            Bringing up Ortiz's years with the Twins is completely irrelevant. Talk about a different philosophy he was being told to have at the plate.
                            Michigan Wolverines
                            Chicago White Sox

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                            • steelcurtain311
                              Banned
                              • Feb 2009
                              • 2087

                              #15
                              Re: Who will be the next big cheat????

                              How does anyone figure Pujols? He's one of the most naturally gifted players I've ever seen. At the plate, there is no one better. His eye is the best in the game (he K's 50 times a season, if even that), he has a ridiculous swing and power, and is the most consistent clutch hitter in the game. He's an all around great hitter, the best in the game. His power numbers have stayed consistent since his rookie year, and he's always batting well over .300. There's nothing to believe he was ever juiced, he's just a great hitter, great player all around.

                              He's one of the few players who actually went after a reporter who erroneously reported that he was juiced, since he has nothing to hide.


                              The one guy who I feel will come out at some point, is Luis Gonzalez. His 2001 season is SOOOOO far off from the rest of his career numbers. He HAD to be on the juice. Here was a guy whose career high in HR's/RBI's was 31/114 (and even that was a career year) and all of a sudden he puts up 57/142, while batting .325. Those are RIDICULOUS jumps in his numbers, which he never came close to putting up before that year, and never came close to putting up ever again.

                              This is a guy who was like a .280-.290 20-25 HR 80-85 RBI kind of guy each season, he's not just suddenly going to hit nearly SIXTY HR's out of the blue.
                              Last edited by steelcurtain311; 02-22-2009, 03:12 PM.

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