From Superstar to where the hell have you gone!!!!

[Coug00]

Re: From Superstar to where the hell have you gone!!!!

Beltre hasn't been a top 5 fielding 3rd baseman since 2006. He's probably more in the 10-15 range now.

[BatsareBugs]

Re: From Superstar to where the hell have you gone!!!!

Richie Sexson... I mean you go from clobbering home runs year-in and year-out to getting cut outright and ultimately replaced by Russell Branyan of all people, wtf happened?

[BaselineBakes]

Re: From Superstar to where the hell have you gone!!!!

One of my favorite center fielders, Andruw Jones.

What happened?

[Scott]

Re: From Superstar to where the hell have you gone!!!!

One of my favorite center fielders, Andruw Jones.

What happened?

He's hitting .333, 3 HRs, 11 RBIs, 12 Runs with an OPS over 1000.

[cubsfan203]

Re: From Superstar to where the hell have you gone!!!!

In 2008 he was 12th in RZR and 9th in fielding %. (Plus/Minus was 9th in '07, wasn't even in top 10 in 2008).

In 2007 he was 15th in fielding % and 13th in RZR.

His fielding has been even worse so far this year. The only one of those stats he's been near the top of since 2006 was balls out of zone. There is no way he is a top 5 fielder, and even arguing him being top 10 is stretching it.

I'm not saying he's a bad fielder, but he certainly isn't one of the best like the poster stated.

[cubsfan203]

Re: From Superstar to where the hell have you gone!!!!

He's hitting .333, 3 HRs, 11 RBIs, 12 Runs with an OPS over 1000.

In just 8 games played. He's going to be some nice trade bait for the Rangers assuming Josh Hamilton comes back healthy.

[Scott]

Re: From Superstar to where the hell have you gone!!!!

In just 8 games played. He's going to be some nice trade bait for the Rangers assuming Josh Hamilton comes back healthy.

True...Jaramillo has really helped his swing though...

[cubsfan203]

Re: From Superstar to where the hell have you gone!!!!

True...Jaramillo has really helped his swing though...

I meant the only 8 games as a good thing. He's played really well, wish I could find that old thread with people saying he didn't have a chance to even make the team.

[BatsareBugs]

Re: From Superstar to where the hell have you gone!!!!

Ryan Klesko, now here's a guy who could belt at least 20 home runs in a season and had a couple of 20-20 seasons with the Padres in 2000 and 2001, then all-of-sudden forgot how to hit home runs, whined about the ballpark, then fell off.

[BaselineBakes]

Re: From Superstar to where the hell have you gone!!!!

He's hitting .333, 3 HRs, 11 RBIs, 12 Runs with an OPS over 1000.

wow, I had no idea. I don't get to see many Texas games in New York, but i'm glad to hear he's actually hitting again after what happened in LA.

[Coug00]

Re: From Superstar to where the hell have you gone!!!!

In 2008 he was 12th in RZR and 9th in fielding %. (Plus/Minus was 9th in '07, wasn't even in top 10 in 2008).

In 2007 he was 15th in fielding % and 13th in RZR.

His fielding has been even worse so far this year. The only one of those stats he's been near the top of since 2006 was balls out of zone. There is no way he is a top 5 fielder, and even arguing him being top 10 is stretching it.

I'm not saying he's a bad fielder, but he certainly isn't one of the best like the poster stated.

Actually he led all 3B in plus/minus in 2008 at +32. He leads all 3B in plus/minus from 2006-2008 at +63. Pedro Feliz is next closest at +55.

Don't use fielding %. Terrible, terrible, terrible statistic that should be banned from baseball. It tells us nothing.

You have to look at fielding holistically because there isn't a single metric that can give us a black & white output like we can get from hitting metrics. You have to take all of these different fielding metrics to get a value of a fielder. You can't simply pick RZR to grade someone (RZR only measures left/right range, but doesn't take into account arm strength, the ability to charge balls, or even where the fielder lined up).

UZR is probably the closest thing we have to measure most of what it takes to be a fielder and he was 2nd in '08, 15th in '07, 2nd in '06, and 4th so far this season.

I'd say him consistently near the top for UZR, plus/minus, and OOZ qualify him as one of the top fielding 3B in baseball.

[jth1331]

Re: From Superstar to where the hell have you gone!!!!

I'd really like to see you name 15 3B better than Beltre.

1. Alex Rodriguez
2. David Wright
3. Chipper Jones
4. Aramis Ramirez
5. Evan Longoria
6. Melvin Mora
7. Ryan Zimmerman
8. Michael Young
9. Garrett Atkins

After that, really, IMO you get a bunch of comparable guys. Heck, even Atkins could get thrown into that mess. Glaus, Rolen, Figgins, Beltre, Kouzmanoff, Gordon, Reynolds.
Personally, I have a hard time believing Beltre factors in a run less a game, I never fully believe those statistics that are loosely based on estimates and unknown factors.

[Ewing]

Re: From Superstar to where the hell have you gone!!!!

Anybody heard from Cory Lidle lately?

I'ma gonna go to hell when I die.

[Ewing]

Re: From Superstar to where the hell have you gone!!!!

9. Garrett Atkins

How about no.

[WazzuRC]

Re: From Superstar to where the hell have you gone!!!!

9. Garrett Atkins

LOL. Have you seen his stats away from Coors? Also, he's one of the worst defensive 3B in the league.