7 out of 10 top modern-day home run hitters on the juice...and counting

[Blzer]

Re: 7 out of 10 top modern-day home run hitters on the juice...and counting

LOL, another hit-n-run by Freelance.

Freelance!

[jetercanoturn2]

Re: 7 out of 10 top modern-day home run hitters on the juice...and counting

Within the last two weeks Dexter Fowler stole five bases in a game, Jacoby Ellsbury stole home plate and Carl Crawford tied the record with six stolen bases in one game. What sport have you been watching?

LMAO exactly!! If you were such a huge stolen base enthusiast you would have noticed those statlines.

[terrapinman]

Re: 7 out of 10 top modern-day home run hitters on the juice...and counting

I am betting that we soon hear about Pedro Cerrano coming up positive.

i sure hope not...he seemed like a class act.

If he does, I'm pretty sure Jobu told him to juice up.

[ZB9]

Re: 7 out of 10 top modern-day home run hitters on the juice...and counting

all of this coming out in baseball is just a reality check. Those that freak out about PEDs should probably stop watching pro sports all together, because performance enhancers are a part of professional sports. There is a fine line between what is legal and not legal and what is testable and what is not testable...but pro athletes are constantly searching for an edge.

Most people only freak out when it happens in baseball. Why do people not care when many of the 70s Steelers admit to abusing steroids...or when Harrison and Merriman are suspended for using PEDs? Merriman was voted to the pro bowl the same season.

btw, is Tiger Woods getting lasik eye surgery considered "performance enhancing"? The golfers before his time who had the records Tiger is breaking didnt have access to that technology. (of course Woods isnt cheating, im not saying that, it's just an example of the fine line when talking about "performance enhancing")

[Freelance]

Re: 7 out of 10 top modern-day home run hitters on the juice...and counting

LMAO exactly!! If you were such a huge stolen base enthusiast you would have noticed those statlines.

I did notice, and it was cool.

But I grew up watching Ricky Henderson steal 130 bases. I watched Lou Brock, Vince Coleman, Willie Wilson, Kenny Lofton. Teams used it as a major weapon; now most just sit and wait for the home run or the sac fly.

Now there's too many 180 pound second baseman hitting 25 homers a year.

The hit-and-run is become more rare each year. I actually love that my Rangers are double stealing this year; it's a shot from the past.

[Sportsforever]

Re: 7 out of 10 top modern-day home run hitters on the juice...and counting

I love baseball; played it for 13 years. But I hate what's it's become.

My favorite stat in baseball is stolen bases because I love that part of the game. You don't see them any more, because everybody in the lineup is hitting home runs. Steroids, small parks, juiced balls, etc, have taken the beauty out of the game to a large degree.

And yes, I understand that other sports have it too, but baseball statistics are sacred, and now the whole statistical history of baseball is skewed beyond recognition.

I suppose we should go back to the "golden era" of the 1950's where everyone was stealing bases...oh wait, no they weren't. They played station to station baseball and waited for the Mick, Ralph Kiner, Ted Kluzewski, Gil Hodges, Duke Snider, and company to hit a homer. Folks that bash baseball just haven't paid attention to the history of this great game.

[jetercanoturn2]

Re: 7 out of 10 top modern-day home run hitters on the juice...and counting

I did notice, and it was cool.

But I grew up watching Ricky Henderson steal 130 bases. I watched Lou Brock, Vince Coleman, Willie Wilson, Kenny Lofton. Teams used it as a major weapon; now most just sit and wait for the home run or the sac fly.

Now there's too many 180 pound second baseman hitting 25 homers a year.

The hit-and-run is become more rare each year. I actually love that my Rangers are double stealing this year; it's a shot from the past.

Every Era is different man, that was the "Steroid Era", Power was the name of the game. It has changed pretty dramatically though if you have been watching, I feel like we are nearing a "New Era" where we are seein alot more things that we weren't seeing in the steroid era.

Speed is coming back, but it's important to note that every era is different like the previous guy said before me, they played station to station baseball and then it changed where you saw guys like Lou Brock,Maury Wills, Vince Coleman, it just changes, It's part of our Baseball history it's mostly rich with some dark spots, but it's our history and we love it.

And it's also important to note that different managers play different styles, Teams are built around different styles of play, Joe Maddon and Joe Girardi play very different styles, That's baseball and if your really up on it and following it closely, you would notice the different trends.

[WazzuRC]

Re: 7 out of 10 top modern-day home run hitters on the juice...and counting

I did notice, and it was cool.

But I grew up watching Ricky Henderson steal 130 bases. I watched Lou Brock, Vince Coleman, Willie Wilson, Kenny Lofton. Teams used it as a major weapon; now most just sit and wait for the home run or the sac fly.

Now there's too many 180 pound second baseman hitting 25 homers a year.

The hit-and-run is become more rare each year. I actually love that my Rangers are double stealing this year; it's a shot from the past.

Stolen Bases per game (courtesy of Baseball Reference):

2009 - 0.74
2008 - 0.60
2007 - 0.58

1987 - 0.65
1986 - 0.76
1985 - 0.65

You're right. There are zero stolen bases in the game today.

Home Runs per game (coutesy of Baseball Almanac).

2008 - 1.02
2007 - 1.10
2006 - 1.03

1987 - 1.06
1986 - .91
1985 - .91

[jth1331]

Re: 7 out of 10 top modern-day home run hitters on the juice...and counting

I think more importantly, the steroid talk about it ruining the game, is ruining baseball's reputation and perception amongst the people.

Everybody knows now that virtually every player has been on performance enhancements, and we need to accept this part of the baseball era as such. They are cleaning it up and things seems to be moving in the right direction, which is good.

I do hope we don't see anymore Bret Boone's or Brady Anderson's of the world, guys coming out of nowhere to be homerun threats.

[Cebby]

Re: 7 out of 10 top modern-day home run hitters on the juice...and counting

That leaves Ken Griffey, Frank Thomas, Jim Thome.....for now. Carlos Delgado is up there, too. Would anyone be surprised to find out if one or all of those guys were juicing, too?

Jim Thome and Carlos Delgado wouldn't shock me.

Ken Griffey Jr would floor me.

Frank Thomas I don't believe is possible. He's been advocating testing for more than 10 years, and he was the only person to confront the Mitchell Report people when accused. Of everyone in MLB, he's the only person I would bet my life on.

[Blzer]

Re: 7 out of 10 top modern-day home run hitters on the juice...and counting

Jim Thome and Carlos Delgado wouldn't shock me.

Ken Griffey Jr would floor me.

Frank Thomas I don't believe is possible. He's been advocating testing for more than 10 years, and he was the only person to confront the Mitchell Report people when accused. Of everyone in MLB, he's the only person I would bet my life on.

Him or Roy Oswalt.

[CMH]

Re: 7 out of 10 top modern-day home run hitters on the juice...and counting

I did notice, and it was cool.

But I grew up watching Ricky Henderson steal 130 bases. I watched Lou Brock, Vince Coleman, Willie Wilson, Kenny Lofton. Teams used it as a major weapon; now most just sit and wait for the home run or the sac fly.

Now there's too many 180 pound second baseman hitting 25 homers a year.

The hit-and-run is become more rare each year. I actually love that my Rangers are double stealing this year; it's a shot from the past.

It's interesting because there's this perception that stolen bases are down. Someone already posted the stats, but there are more showing how stolen bases are up amongst players.

If you take out guys like Henderson, Raines and Coleman stealing a gazzilion bases, you'll find that guys of this era are amongst the leaders in stolen bases for a season.

The difference is that there isn't one guy stealing 100 bases like Henderson did. But, let's face it, Henderson was a special player. No one was stealing 100 bases even in the 20's.

The truth is this:

More guys are stealing bases in today's game than they ever did in yesterday's game. Henderson was an anomaly that may never be matched and had never been matched even in the non-homer happy days of baseball. Stolen bases are here. They've been here. It's just that no one cares.

[steelcurtain311]

Re: 7 out of 10 top modern-day home run hitters on the juice...and counting

<hr style="color: rgb(57, 57, 57);" size="1"> It's a gross double standard but football just doesn't get scrutinized the way baseball does due to the nature of that sport. We all know those guys are gonna beat the hell out of each other and have short lives even WITHOUT steroids so it doesn't matter that much.

Agreed 100%. Football players did steroids to an absurd level, like a pro wrestler level. I wouldn't doubt that it's still the most steroid-infested sport there is amongst professional sports. Yet you hardly see the same kind of reaction to them.

The one guy in this thread is absolutely right, if you go down the list of Sacks leaders and so forth, you're going to turn up dozens of names of guys who were roided out of their minds. Hell, so many of the greatest offensive linemen ever were complete roidheads.


I think it's so widely recognized amongst baseball because we had an era where certain players broke the most sacred single achievement records in sports, and they all did it by cheating. And the commissioner of baseball sat by and let them cheat, like the utter joke that he is. And now here we are stuck years later, without a clue as to how to handle these records. We have a new HR king who is an utter fraud. What can we do about that now?

[Blzer]

Re: 7 out of 10 top modern-day home run hitters on the juice...and counting

What can we do about that now?

Let it be. He did it "unknowingly" (I'll go by that unless stated otherwise in trial) before it was banned in baseball. Yes it was illegal in the U.S., but then we should make that case for everybody (including football players).

If it wasn't banned in baseball, it wasn't cheating the sport. Enough said. His trial does not have to do with his use and the sport, it's whether he lied before a grand jury. Being exposed of this technically makes him no less of a baseball cheater.

[Knight165]

Re: 7 out of 10 top modern-day home run hitters on the juice...and counting

Let it be. He did it "unknowingly" (I'll go by that unless stated otherwise in trial) before it was banned in baseball. Yes it was illegal in the U.S., but then we should make that case for everybody (including football players).

If it wasn't banned in baseball, it wasn't cheating the sport. Enough said. His trial does not have to do with his use and the sport, it's whether he lied before a grand jury. Being exposed of this technically makes him no less of a baseball cheater.

When exactly do you think that steroids were prohibited by the commissioner in baseball?

M.K.
Knight165