How much taint does the Red Sox 2004 Championship have?

[Scottdau]

Re: How much taint does the Red Sox 2004 Championship have?

In turn, those teams will then have to give their championships to the teams they beat in the NLCS or ALCS, since they undoubtedly had juicing players as well. And so on and so forth, leading to Craig Counsell, the only obviously clean player in baseball (though he did hit a homer the other day ), holding every World Series title from the Steroid Era.

Make it happen Bud.

As long as my 89 Giants get a ring.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: How much taint does the Red Sox 2004 Championship have?

All it does is shutup the delusional Red Sox fans who thought they were clean while the rest of baseball was dirty.

For normal people who realized that cheating was rampant throughout baseball, it doesn't really change anything.

And that's good enough.

[Mr. Franchise]

Re: How much taint does the Red Sox 2004 Championship have?

It was supposed to be a great story about how the Red Sox broke the curse but now that their two best players have been busted, is their championship tainted?

Does anyone even care since everyone was doing it?

I know a large percentage of players were doing it but to me it takes a lot away from what the Red Sox did that year.

Taint? Like in between my *** and balls? Well since they're all dudes, I'd say they have 25 taints.

[Vince]

Re: How much taint does the Red Sox 2004 Championship have?

I think if you had players that took steroids you should have to give up your World Series championship. And you should have to give it back to the team you beat. So in the Red Sox case. They should give it to the Cardinals. AND THE A's SHOULD GIVE THEIR 89 Championship to the GIANTS! Yep, that is only fair. Make it happen Bud.

I know you're probably joking, but this is hilarious coming from a Giants fan...

[steelcurtain311]

Re: How much taint does the Red Sox 2004 Championship have?

Why should this taint their WS championship? Arizona won in 2001 off of the bat of an obviously juiced up Luis Gonzalez. Should they give their World Series back too?

David Ortiz was a big part of why the Sox were so good. And he was only a good hitter because of steroids (and Manny Ramirez), so yeah, that's unfair. But then again, it's unfair that anyone was on steroids in that era. But soooo many players were. How do you know that nobody on any of the teams they played in the playoffs weren't also on steroid?

There shouldn't be that much taint since everyone was doing it. It balances it out. Sure some guys were clean, and that SUCKS for them, since they're getting the short end of the stick.

The true taint is Barry Bonds, Mark McGwire, Sammy Sosa, stealing the HR record(s) that Henry Aaron and Roger Maris went through hell to get, simply because of steroids. That's where something needs to be done.

[CMH]

Re: How much taint does the Red Sox 2004 Championship have?

Don't kid yourself. They help immensely.

Do you really think it's a coincidence that the games best players over the past decade were all juicers?

Giambi (MVP)
Tejada (MVP)
Barry Bonds (MVP)
Sosa (MVP)
Juan Gonzalez (MVP)
McGwire
Canseco
Clemens
Ramirez
Ortiz
Caminiti
A-Rod (MVP)
etc.

How dare you forget that Caminiti won an MVP!!!

[Freelance]

Re: How much taint does the Red Sox 2004 Championship have?

The Boston Roid Sox.

Absolutely, it is tainted.

How many players juiced their brains out so they could strike it rich with the Yankees or Red Sox?

If I were a .280 hitting left fielder with 18 home runs and 75 RBI, and I wasn't on the juice, I'm pissed. I'm treated like an also-ran, while the "standard" for my position is hitting 35-plus HR because he's recovering faster from fatigue and has more strength because he's cheating.

The record books are basically trashed. The salaries between teams are ridiculously inequitable. Baseball, as it once was for decades, is no more.

[CMH]

Re: How much taint does the Red Sox 2004 Championship have?

The Boston Roid Sox.

Absolutely, it is tainted.

How many players juiced their brains out so they could strike it rich with the Yankees or Red Sox?

If I were a .280 hitting left fielder with 18 home runs and 75 RBI, and I wasn't on the juice, I'm pissed. I'm treated like an also-ran, while the "standard" for my position is hitting 35-plus HR because he's recovering faster from fatigue and has more strength because he's cheating.

The record books are basically trashed. The salaries between teams are ridiculously inequitable. Baseball, as it once was for decades, is no more.

Ok, if I wasn't convinced before, I'm convinced now: you're like that guy that creates an alias to provoke arguments, but instead you didn't take the time to create the alias, right?

[Freelance]

Re: How much taint does the Red Sox 2004 Championship have?

Ok, if I wasn't convinced before, I'm convinced now: you're like that guy that creates an alias to provoke arguments, but instead you didn't take the time to create the alias, right?

Don't need an alias. Everything I wrote is inarguably true.

[steelcurtain311]

Re: How much taint does the Red Sox 2004 Championship have?

He does bring up an excellent point about the money. Are people like Jason Giambi raking in the millions if not for steroids? That's basically stealing money. And yes, completely unfair to the guys who weren't juiced. I remember Roy Oswalt said that in an interview once, how steroids users took money out of his pocket and he wasn't happy about it.

[kcxiv]

Re: How much taint does the Red Sox 2004 Championship have?

As much as i hate the Red Sox and Yankee's to me it doesnt really matter. Its not like them guys were the only guys doing it, Chances are multiple players from every team were doing it. Imo, it balances out.

[CMH]

Re: How much taint does the Red Sox 2004 Championship have?

He does bring up an excellent point about the money. Are people like Jason Giambi raking in the millions if not for steroids? That's basically stealing money. And yes, completely unfair to the guys who weren't juiced. I remember Roy Oswalt said that in an interview once, how steroids users took money out of his pocket and he wasn't happy about it.

If you know Freelance then you know that's not the part he really cares to express much. The last paragraph is like the little footnote he has to include in every argument about baseball.

Freelance, I don't dislike you. But you sure do like bringing that up often.

[ehh]

Re: How much taint does the Red Sox 2004 Championship have?

As Jets said I'm just happy now that all the idiotic Red Sox fans will shut up about steroids since their players dodged the Mitchell Report, which was NY-based anyway because of Radomski and the other idiot (thankfully can't even remember his name).

Papi was such an obvious juicer it is nice to have it proved. Just look at the stats of that 2004 team and how many players had career years. Bill Mueller wins the batting title, Varitek is an obvious juicer (didn't have his first really good year until he was 31 years old), Manny got busted, Kaplar and Millar are obvious as hell, Trot Nixon is a 25+ homer per year guy for only three years then completely falls off the face of the earth, even as a Yanks fan I believe Damon is/was on PEDs. Mark Bellhorn hits 44 of his 69 career homers in two seasons (only one w. Boston though) and his career high for a season outside of those two was 8 HR.

The only position players on that '04 team that I don't think were on the juice were Pokey Reese and possibly Orlando Cabrera.

[Freelance]

Re: How much taint does the Red Sox 2004 Championship have?

If you know Freelance then you know that's not the part he really cares to express much. The last paragraph is like the little footnote he has to include in every argument about baseball.

Freelance, I don't dislike you. But you sure do like bringing that up often.

Because it drives me nuts. I love baseball almost as much as football (I played baseball for 12 years), and I hate what it is.

Like I said, imagine you are, oh, Steve Utley or Michael Young(let's assume they're not on roids, but who the heck knows). You should be one of the top power hitters in the league, one of the very few truly elite hitters in the league, period.

But no, half the top hitters are cheating and have an unfair advantage over you, so you make millions of dollars less and get half the credit you deserve as a player because you decided to play with integrity.

Remember, there are still many players who do not cheat. They are getting screwed in their paycheck, their playing time, and their place in baseball history because they choose to do it the right way.

[DirrtySouth78]

Re: How much taint does the Red Sox 2004 Championship have?

I do get tired of constantly hearing about PED's. Its an overblown issue to me. U can cry about the guys who didn't do it all you want, but at the end of the day thats the way it happened. Thats life in general. Some people cheat, some don't. Some are fortunate, some arent.

The media act like steriods are baseball in a bottle and they arent. But the double standard is what gets me. In baseball guy tests positive for PED and its "OMG he should never be allowed to play again and take all his stats outta the record books" yet an NFL guy does it and you get "Ehh". Makes me laugh.

Baseball has always had cheating in one form or another, always will. People can say what they want, but if you had opportunity to take them and dramatically increase your salary by $5-15 million with very low possibility of getting caught very few would actually turn it down.

Sorry for a rant but just let it go. Alot of guys cheated OK lets just agree they did and move on. Some people seem to complain just to be argumentative or be the onbe who stirs the pot. Get over it. Can't change anything, what happened happened. LET IT GO and move on