Red Sox/Tigers Brawl

[Stu]

Re: Red Sox/Tigers Brawl

He was prepared for the consequences. He avoided Youkilis throwing his helmet at him and then it was really Porcello who ended up tackling Youkilis to the ground. But Porcello shouldn't have been ejected from the game.

Why not? From the POV of an umpire the whole thing should have been over after he threw at Martinez. The Red Sox didn't respond and he came back and hit Youkilis. Any time two teams are clearly throwing at each other and a batter charges the mound, the pitcher is going too.

[mgoblue678]

Re: Red Sox/Tigers Brawl

Youkilis should know that is how the game works. Just take your medicine and head down to first base, like most players do. It would have been over after that.

I can see why a Boston fan would be happy with this though as it totally swung the game around. Instead of a starting pitching who had pitched well in his last two starts and looked like he might have another good night the Tigers had to put in a bum reliever who Boston could tee off against.


And what the heck is Porcello supposed to do when he charged. He threw his hands up and backed away, he only took him to the ground after Youkilis threw his helmet and had a hold of him.

[CWood2]

Re: Red Sox/Tigers Brawl

^^^Youkilis should know that is how the game works. Just take your medicine and head down to first base, like most players do. It would have been over after that.

I can see why a Boston fan would be happy with this though as it totally swung the game around. Instead of a starting pitching who had pitched well in his last two starts and looked like he might have another good night the Tigers had to put in a bum reliever who Boston could tee off against.

The way the Sox have been playing, that to me is the most significant thing. And then Tito getting tossed on a random stolen base call is clearly more of him trying to fire up a slumping roster. I knew that was going to happen as soon as he ran out ...

[Chaos81]

Re: Red Sox/Tigers Brawl

Video?

[J0nnD0ugh]

Re: Red Sox/Tigers Brawl

He wasn't throwing at Martinez in the first inning. Balls do get away from pro pitchers sometimes too. He didn't even hit him.

I agree he was probably throwing at Youkilis but that was only in response to Cabrera getting hit on the hand and knocked out the game. Youkilis should know that is how the game works instead of acting like a hothead.

And as Blaze said the benches were never warned.

If you know the guy was throwing @ him on purpose, why are you shocked he was tossed? That's what is supposed to happen.

[Stu]

Re: Red Sox/Tigers Brawl

Youkilis should know that is how the game works. Just take your medicine and head down to first base, like most players do. It would have been over after that.

Youkilis took his medicine last night. How many players would allow themselves to get beaned on purpose two days in a row and not charge the mound?

Not saying the Red Sox are in the right here but not sure why people are surprised Youkilis charged the mound and that Porcello got tossed.

[mgoblue678]

Re: Red Sox/Tigers Brawl

As I said the benches weren't warned and that is generally how it works in baseball. The umps let both teams get there shots in before tossing anybody. Why do I see highlights of that pretty regularly where both teams hit a guy intentionally and nobody gets ejected? It would have been over after Youkilis got hit but he had to escalate the situation.

The players nowadays really are a bunch of wimps, heck they get upset when people just throw inside. They really would not fair well in the old days when guys like Gibson had no problem hitting batters.

Not to mention can you really blame the Tigers for retaliating after there best player gets hit two days in a row and gets knocked out the game?

[J0nnD0ugh]

Re: Red Sox/Tigers Brawl

As I said the benches weren't warned and that is generally how it works in baseball. The umps let both teams get there shots in before tossing anybody.

no it isn't. If the umps think a hurler is tossing at someone, they can kick him out of the game. They are not required to issue warning or allow someone to retaliate.

[mgoblue678]

Re: Red Sox/Tigers Brawl

^^^Then why do I see it all the time then. Wasn't there a Rays/ Yankeed game a couple of weeks ago where Joba threw it over Longoria's head and then the Rays hit Texeira up near the head the very next inning. Didn't see anybody get thrown out there even though it was clearly retaliation?

You need to watch more baseball if you don't think umps lets teams retaliate most of the time before anybody gets thrown out.

If teams were not allowed to retaliate how exactly do think the game would police itself? You would have one team getting a free shot at the other while the other team would be unable to do anything about it.

[Blzer]

Re: Red Sox/Tigers Brawl

^^^Then why do I see it all the time then. Wasn't there a Rays/ Yankeed game a couple of weeks ago where Joba threw it over Longoria's head and then the Rays hit Texeira up near the head the very next inning. Didn't see anybody get thrown out there even though it was clearly retaliation?

You need to watch more baseball if you don't think umps lets teams retaliate most of the time before anybody gets thrown out.

As you can see, when an umpire warns the teams they point to the dugouts; they aren't pointing to the pitcher on the mound. This is a message to the managers. They are warning that if someone gets hit again they will eject the manager. Players being ejected are just a byproduct of this action. But it's the managers that are getting warned in this case. So in this case, warnings aren't required for ejecting players, but I have always seen it prior to ejecting the manager of the defensive team.

I haven't been able to watch the game, but I'm guessing Leyland didn't get ejected from this, right?

[Stu]

Re: Red Sox/Tigers Brawl

^^^Then why do I see it all the time then. Wasn't there a Rays/ Yankeed game a couple of weeks ago where Joba threw it over Longoria's head and then the Rays hit Texeira up near the head the very next inning. Didn't see anybody get thrown out there even though it was clearly retaliation?

You need to watch more baseball if you don't think umps lets teams retaliate most of the time before anybody gets thrown out.

If teams were not allowed to retaliate how exactly do think the game would police itself? You would have one team getting a free shot at the other while the other team would be unable to do anything about it.

They did allow retaliation when Porcello threw at Martinez. Hitting Youkilis was escalation.

[J0nnD0ugh]

Re: Red Sox/Tigers Brawl

You need to watch more baseball if you don't think umps lets teams retaliate most of the time before anybody gets thrown out.

Please don't tell me to watch more baseball.

By your own chosen word, "Most", you admit there is no hard fast rule that retaliation is allowed. When the ump is sure you hit someone on purpose, or even tried to, he's supposed to send you off. & if the action resulted in a brawl, its a guarantee.

[mgoblue678]

Re: Red Sox/Tigers Brawl

He didn't hit Martinez and it looked like a fastball that was supposed to be on the inside corner that got away. Porcello does have alot of movement on his pitches Why do people think pitchers have pinpoint control at all times?

Why exactly would Porcello hit a guy in the first inning after a good start by the team and put a runner on base? That could lead to a big inning in a good offensive ballpark. It wouldn't make any sense. If you watched Porcello's reaction after the pitch it looked like he didn't mean to throw it there. Martinez is the one who made it more than it was with his reaction.

^^^Youkilis is the one who escalated it in to a brawl. If he would have walked to first nobody would have been ejected and it would have been over. I don't think pitchers should be ejected for the brawl part though unless they throw a punch or something. All Porcello did was throw Youkilis off of him after he threw his helmet at him and was bear hugging him.

I just think the initial retaliation should always be allowed unless somebody is throwing at somebody's head. That is the only way the game can police itself. But now you got players charging the mound when that happens. Overall I just think players nowadays are way too inclined to charge the mound, they would have had serious issues when guys like Gibson were pitching. Like I said players now sometimes get upset when pitchers just throw inside.

[Beantown]

Re: Red Sox/Tigers Brawl

Not to mention can you really blame the Tigers for retaliating after there best player gets hit two days in a row and gets knocked out the game?

If this is your argument, how can you blame Youk after he got hit by the Tigers in the last game, and was then throw at again tonight?

How many times does a player have to get hit and "suck it up" before they can retaliate? And you bet your *** a player like Youk would be perfectly fine in the old days. He'd get hit, and he'd fight back every single time instead of every other time.

[mgoblue678]

Re: Red Sox/Tigers Brawl

^^^I was using that as justification for Porcello throwing at him.

Like I said 3 Tigers have been hit in this series and I haven't seen any of them charge the mound. There best player just missed possibly breaking his hand tonight. They easily could have. Cabrera got hit twice in this series, did he charge the mound? He clearly got intentionally last night just like Youkilis did tonight. Once again didn't seen him charge the mound.

And no don't fool yourself the players nowadays who can get upset when guys throw it inside or anywhere near them would have a hard time not getting suspended every other week when pitchers threw inside relentlessly. Gibson threw at guys all the time.