Roger better than Nolan Ryan?

[mjb2124]

Re: Roger better than Nolan Ryan?

The 7 no hitter's are amazing, but when it comes down to it, they're meaningless too. The more I look at the numbers the more I realize that Ryan's legend is based on the no-hitters and other accolades he recieved and not the stats. Many people don't take the time to look deeply into the stats which show a different side than what most people think of when they hear the name Nolan Ryan. Don't get me wrong, he was a great pitcher, but so is the Rocket.

[MSRoble33]

Re: Roger better than Nolan Ryan?

Well, that's just it..... both guys have pro's that are skewed in their favor... winning percentage for rocket, K's and accolades for Ryan...

Look at who Ryan played for, and look who Rocket played for... Rocket used to a Red Sox, and they've always (as long as Rocket was there) fielded a competitive team... then the Jays, I honestly don't remember how THEY did in rocket's tenure, but then he goes to NYY and we all know what kinda offense Georgie put behind him.

Ryan started off as a Met, then onto the Angels (who've NEVER have a competitive team till last year), then onto Houston, then onto Texas (who again, have had minimal success until recently, they are showing signs)...

Again, 6 of 1, half-dozen of the other, they basically "offset" in my eyes, then I think to myself, "If I can have a starting pitcher to start my "all-time great team", who would I choose? I'd still go with Ryan. Even though rocket would be a viable option as well.

[MSRoble33]

Re: Roger better than Nolan Ryan?

Well, that's just it..... both guys have pro's that are skewed in their favor... winning percentage for rocket, K's and accolades for Ryan...

Look at who Ryan played for, and look who Rocket played for... Rocket used to a Red Sox, and they've always (as long as Rocket was there) fielded a competitive team... then the Jays, I honestly don't remember how THEY did in rocket's tenure, but then he goes to NYY and we all know what kinda offense Georgie put behind him.

Ryan started off as a Met, then onto the Angels (who've NEVER have a competitive team till last year), then onto Houston, then onto Texas (who again, have had minimal success until recently, they are showing signs)...

Again, 6 of 1, half-dozen of the other, they basically "offset" in my eyes, then I think to myself, "If I can have a starting pitcher to start my "all-time great team", who would I choose? I'd still go with Ryan. Even though rocket would be a viable option as well.

[MSRoble33]

Re: Roger better than Nolan Ryan?

Well, that's just it..... both guys have pro's that are skewed in their favor... winning percentage for rocket, K's and accolades for Ryan...

Look at who Ryan played for, and look who Rocket played for... Rocket used to a Red Sox, and they've always (as long as Rocket was there) fielded a competitive team... then the Jays, I honestly don't remember how THEY did in rocket's tenure, but then he goes to NYY and we all know what kinda offense Georgie put behind him.

Ryan started off as a Met, then onto the Angels (who've NEVER have a competitive team till last year), then onto Houston, then onto Texas (who again, have had minimal success until recently, they are showing signs)...

Again, 6 of 1, half-dozen of the other, they basically "offset" in my eyes, then I think to myself, "If I can have a starting pitcher to start my "all-time great team", who would I choose? I'd still go with Ryan. Even though rocket would be a viable option as well.

[nate]

Re: Roger better than Nolan Ryan?

Thats a big NO.....Ryan is better than Roger.

[nate]

Re: Roger better than Nolan Ryan?

Thats a big NO.....Ryan is better than Roger.

[nate]

Re: Roger better than Nolan Ryan?

Thats a big NO.....Ryan is better than Roger.

[milbrewcity]

Re: Roger better than Nolan Ryan?

ryan is better. but it is very close.

[milbrewcity]

Re: Roger better than Nolan Ryan?

ryan is better. but it is very close.

[milbrewcity]

Re: Roger better than Nolan Ryan?

ryan is better. but it is very close.

[Shaver]

Re: Roger better than Nolan Ryan?

Disagree.

Clemens as a total pitcher is better then Nolan Ryan. Ryan is great! But a lot of his stats are a product of:
(a) Longevity - which is not an excuse. He should be comended for it.
(b) Pitching in the 70's and 80's - Way bigger strike zone. Far less patient hitters. Far less homerun power.
(c) Pitched in 4 man rotations - again, should be comended for going out there more often, but that was baseball of the time.

The Express was a beast. No doubt. If I am looking for a K to win a game, I go with him no brainer. But, if I am looking for a WIN....I am starting Rocket over Ryan. 100 out of 100 times.

[Shaver]

Re: Roger better than Nolan Ryan?

Disagree.

Clemens as a total pitcher is better then Nolan Ryan. Ryan is great! But a lot of his stats are a product of:
(a) Longevity - which is not an excuse. He should be comended for it.
(b) Pitching in the 70's and 80's - Way bigger strike zone. Far less patient hitters. Far less homerun power.
(c) Pitched in 4 man rotations - again, should be comended for going out there more often, but that was baseball of the time.

The Express was a beast. No doubt. If I am looking for a K to win a game, I go with him no brainer. But, if I am looking for a WIN....I am starting Rocket over Ryan. 100 out of 100 times.

[Shaver]

Re: Roger better than Nolan Ryan?

Disagree.

Clemens as a total pitcher is better then Nolan Ryan. Ryan is great! But a lot of his stats are a product of:
(a) Longevity - which is not an excuse. He should be comended for it.
(b) Pitching in the 70's and 80's - Way bigger strike zone. Far less patient hitters. Far less homerun power.
(c) Pitched in 4 man rotations - again, should be comended for going out there more often, but that was baseball of the time.

The Express was a beast. No doubt. If I am looking for a K to win a game, I go with him no brainer. But, if I am looking for a WIN....I am starting Rocket over Ryan. 100 out of 100 times.

[dce1228]

Re: Roger better than Nolan Ryan?

I hate Roger Clemens. Regardless, he was, and is, a better pitcher than Nolan Ryan. So is Greg Maddux. So is Pedro Martinez.

Ryan's best contemporary is Kerry Wood. IMMESURABLY talented, but more a THROWER than a PITCHER. Too many walks. At times dominating, hence the 7 no-hitters, but all too often beatable (only 32 more wins than losses, hardly a great percentage). The reason for this is Ryan had to strike out EVERYBODY. He never learned to be economic with his pitches, and it led to a lot of walks. The media loved to display the legend of Nolan Ryan, the shows of power and dominance, and were always hesitant to exhibit his obvious flaws, because he could look so good. Everyone is making the arguement that he had 7 no-hitter's and K'd everyone and their momma, but that's just not what makes a truly great pitcher great. You gotta WIN, a lot more than you lose. A lot more. And don't tell me he played for terrible teams his whole career because he didn't. He went 10-13 for an Angels team that won 87 games in 1978. 12-8 for an Astros team that won 96 games in 1986.

I'd take so many pitcher's over Nolan Ryan in a one game play-off that it's hard to count.

[dce1228]

Re: Roger better than Nolan Ryan?

I hate Roger Clemens. Regardless, he was, and is, a better pitcher than Nolan Ryan. So is Greg Maddux. So is Pedro Martinez.

Ryan's best contemporary is Kerry Wood. IMMESURABLY talented, but more a THROWER than a PITCHER. Too many walks. At times dominating, hence the 7 no-hitters, but all too often beatable (only 32 more wins than losses, hardly a great percentage). The reason for this is Ryan had to strike out EVERYBODY. He never learned to be economic with his pitches, and it led to a lot of walks. The media loved to display the legend of Nolan Ryan, the shows of power and dominance, and were always hesitant to exhibit his obvious flaws, because he could look so good. Everyone is making the arguement that he had 7 no-hitter's and K'd everyone and their momma, but that's just not what makes a truly great pitcher great. You gotta WIN, a lot more than you lose. A lot more. And don't tell me he played for terrible teams his whole career because he didn't. He went 10-13 for an Angels team that won 87 games in 1978. 12-8 for an Astros team that won 96 games in 1986.

I'd take so many pitcher's over Nolan Ryan in a one game play-off that it's hard to count.