Pirates enter record books

[J0nnD0ugh]

Re: Pirates enter record books

The Brooklyn Dodgers went through a very similar run of ineptitude for 30+ years in the first part of the 20th century yet people still came out to see "Dem Bums". That's how they got that nickname, in the '20s they were called the Daffiness Boys because of their horrid and often comedic fielding.

At least for the Pirates they generally have capable guys on the field but as soon as their young kids prove themselves they end up getting sold off.

That's an entirely different era. There are many more places & distractions competing for the public's dollar. The NBA wasn't in existence. The NFL wasn't even 20 yrs old.

Not to mention, the Dodgers were to Brooklyn what the Packers are to Green Bay.

The only reason to see the Pirates is because you're a transplant seeing you old home team. Or you're just a fan of the sport.

[steelcurtain311]

Re: Pirates enter record books

Who do the Pirates "ship off" when they're winning? They did it to Aramis Ramirez during the Littlefield era, yes. Littlefield was a moron, and that was purely a money-related move because the Pirates were still in that phase. Okay. Aramis and...who? Brian Giles? Yeah, he's been a shell of his former self since, because he was probably juiced as hell in Pittsburgh. Nate McLouth? Jack Wilson? Adam LaRoche? Jason Bay? Freddy Sanchez? Because the Pirates were just soooo good with them, right?

Newsflash: Jack Wilson sucks. He's a horrible offensive player. Nate McLouth is an okay player, but nothing great and nothing to build around, especially when you have Andrew McCutchen, who is already a better player than Nate in one year, lying in wait. The Pirates had a deal on the table that sent them two nice pitching prospects, one who is already showing signs of being a good pitcher, in Charlie Morton, plus an OF prospect in Gorkys. They shipped off Jack Wilson (with Ian Snell) and got a nice return of young players, and more pitching prospects. They got rid of Freddy Sanchez and got one of the Giants top prospects for him, which is ridiculous since he's done next to nothing since being there, and in all reality is just a guy who is injured constantly and will never come close to his batting title season again offensively. He's really just a utility player of sorts, he shouldn't even play every day. And the Pirates got a top pitching prospect for him. How in any way is that a bad trade? The only trade that was really bad was the Jason Bay trade, the return they got for him was terrible. I'll give it more time before saying it was a total failure, but when the only player to even somewhat deliver so far is Andy LaRoche, just take a look at his numbers on the season and tell me how much hope that gives you.


This isn't the Littlefield era. This is nothing like that. There is a clear and set goal in mind right now, and that is win. That is, ditch these players for young prospects, rebuild with these young players, and win. If that doesn't work, at least we truly tried this time.

Their starting pitching wasn't even that bad this year. Duke/Ohlendorf/Maholm/Morton were all solid for the most part, while none are a true ace pitcher, all are solid starters or at least pitched solid for good stretches of the season. Morton has great stuff, so I still hold out that he could get better. Now, in the farm, you have Tim Alderson and Brad Lincoln, factor them into the future rotation. Plus a slew of pitching prospects that were also netted in trades.

They need the most help with their position players, mainly the infield. Pedro Alvarez will be a revelation when he comes up, he should be a 30-40 HR kind of power guy, and is expected to be a gifted hitter in general. That's just one guy, and he'll be playing third or first base, probably first when it's all said and done. But hey, that's what drafting is for, and they should have a shot at an elite position player in next year's class. McCutchen and Alvarez alone are two guys you can build a franchise around. A right handed hitter who can hit for power, average, get on base, steal you blind, and a possible elite left handed bat are two great things to have in a lineup.

The Pirates have a much more promising base of young players right now than they've had in a very long time. Neal Huntington has done a good job, I just wish more people would actually pay attention to what he's done, instead of just blindly looking at the names traded and going "They traded their top players!" It's going to take time, and realistically, yeah, it could take 20 losing seasons. But I think they start their turnaround as early as next season, as in at least looking more competitive than they have in recent years. A big thing is just development. I question their developmental system in a very big way, because they haven't produced ANY elite MLB talent in years, aside from Andrew McCutchen, but he's just too talented to not of made it.

[JBH3]

Re: Pirates enter record books

SteelCurtain - Great post. I think that pretty much nails it down.

I agree w/ everything you said. I'd love to see them team become more competitive.

The Central is a toss up it seems every year. The Brewers, Astros, Cubs, and Cards always seem to be the favorites and the Reds your "darkhorse". Pitt has always been counted out because on paper you KNEW they wouldn't be competitive.

Now...currently the Cards look unstoppable behind Carp/Wainwright and a lineup featuring Pujols/Holliday/DeRosa/Ludwick and an up and coming Rasmus.

However, they've mortgaged some of their future to acquire Holliday and behind their 1/2 have pieced together a staff.

Milwaukee has some offensive fire-power, and a bullpen but nothing behind Gallardo, and the Astros have holes everywhere it seems...and the Cubbies...where do you begin?

If Pitt can continue to build and be competitive it will really shake up that division (and the league as a whole)...rather than what it's been...a night off vs the Pirates.

Instead of say a potential Wildcard team getting an easy going every so often against a below-avg major league Pirates team. A competitive Pitt team could change the landscape of that division.

Look at how this "new" team took 2 of 3 from my Phillies last week.

It will really shake things up if Huntington can get them back on track.

[snepp]

Re: Pirates enter record books

Bump for random bit of information...


The Royals have more losses over the last 17 years than the Pirates.