Near mutiny in Toronto!Lo

Collapse

Recommended Videos

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • SPTO
    binging
    • Feb 2003
    • 68046

    #1

    Near mutiny in Toronto!Lo

    Looks like the players all want Cito Gaston fired. As if this horrendous season can't end on a more down note though it would explain why for a huge chunk of the years the guys looked like they were going through the motions.

    The on-field woes for the Toronto Blue Jays were plain to see this season, but what hasn't been obvious is a brewing controversy between the team's players and its iconic manager, Cito Gaston.

    Sources from all areas of the organization have told The Canadian Press the dysfunction currently crippling the Toronto Blue Jays front office extends all the way down into the clubhouse, where there are major problems in the relationship between the players and Gaston.

    Those who agreed to talk to The Canadian Press about the friction between the manager and his players would do so only if their names weren't used. Some players wanted to speak to senior team officials first -- and to avoid the news leaking at home in front of a large media contingent -- before putting their names to the complaints. But a series of interviews with front office and players done over the last few weeks indicate the problems are widespread and beyond the normal tensions that often build up between players and a manager over a long, losing season.

    One player said there was simply "constant negativity" coming from the manager's office, while another noted that Gaston once said "there aren't any good players in here." Also at issue is Gaston's hands-off, in-game decision making -- a criticism that dates back to his first tenure as manager from 1989-97

    The problems are so deep that when one player was asked how many others felt the same way, he replied: "Just about everyone."

    The frustration has boiled over to the point that one group is considering going to Blue Jays president Paul Beeston with their complaints during the team's final road trip this week.

    For his part, Gaston said he has no regrets about how he's treated his players this season.

    "If guys aren't happy with whatever happened here, then they're looking at the wrong person," Gaston said after the team's final home game last Sunday.

    "If they're unhappy, they have to look at themselves, because I certainly treated everybody in a way that I'd like to be treated as a player and how I'd like my manager to treat me. If they're grumbling, they're grumbling because they didn't do their jobs. They had opportunities."

    News emerging of the locker-room unrest comes ironically during a torrid run on the field. The Jays (75-84) had won six straight heading into the start of their final series of the season in Baltimore on Friday night.

    The emergence of the clubhouse problems come as the Blue Jays grapple with a series of other fundamental issues, including the search for a permanent president and CEO to replace the interim Beeston, the future of general manager J.P. Ricciardi and the charting of a direction for a franchise unsure if it's rebuilding, retooling or bumping up payroll to load up for a run at the post-season in 2010.

    None may be as touchy as dealing with the 65-year-old Gaston, an icon from the World Series years who may be the most popular person on the team right now and has largely escaped criticism while critics focused on the GM.

    Few people have served the Blue Jays for as long and with as much passion as Gaston, although many around the team believe it is time for him to step into the advisory ambassador role envisioned for him once his contract expires after the 2010 season.

    Gaston returned to manage the Blue Jays following the firing of John Gibbons in June 2008, inheriting a 35-39 team struggling to hit and leading them to a 51-37 mark.

    There were points of friction then, as players chafed under regular heavy criticism, but the strong finish last season helped cover up some of the ill-feeling. Then things picked up where they left off this year, and the relationship between players and manager grew worse as the losing snowballed after a 27-14 start.
    TSN.CA
    Member of the Official OS Bills Backers Club

    "Baseball is the most important thing that doesn't matter at all" - Robert B. Parker
  • CMH
    Making you famous
    • Oct 2002
    • 26203

    #2
    Re: Near mutiny in Toronto!Lo

    I think this is a deep internal problem. These are the same players that didn't like Gibbons, right?

    Gaston was there for a season and a half and already these guys don't like him?

    How many managers have to go through that team before upper management realizes they have a player problem. It's as if the players just want a guy they like and don't want to listen to anybody. Gibbons was too harsh and strong. Now Gaston is too passive and weak. I don't get it. They just want to run the team on their own.

    It might be time to blow up that entire roster.
    "It may well be that we spectators, who are not divinely gifted as athletes, are the only ones able to truly see, articulate and animate the experience of the gift we are denied. And that those who receive and act out the gift of athletic genius must, perforce, be blind and dumb about it -- and not because blindness and dumbness are the price of the gift, but because they are its essence." - David Foster Wallace

    "You'll not find more penny-wise/pound-foolish behavior than in Major League Baseball." - Rob Neyer

    Comment

    • texans
      Rookie
      • May 2004
      • 428

      #3
      Re: Near mutiny in Toronto!Lo

      J.P. Ricciardi was fired. Sounds like Cito's next.

      Comment

      • Vince
        Bow for Bau
        • Aug 2002
        • 26017

        #4
        Re: Near mutiny in Toronto!Lo

        This team is a joke...But thank god JP was fired...His drafting was good, but his signings and trades were brutal...
        @ me or dap me

        http://twitter.com/52isthemike

        Comment

        • CMH
          Making you famous
          • Oct 2002
          • 26203

          #5
          Re: Near mutiny in Toronto!Lo

          Time to blow up the entire franchise.

          Firing JP was mandatory. He is easily one of the worst GMs in the last decade.

          Unfortunately, Gaston will have to go. I don't understand his faults, but I guess a new GM will look for a new guy. But who is out there? There aren't any sure thing managers waiting around for a job. So, Toronto is going to have to invest in a Hillman type of guy and I'm not sure that'll work in the AL East.

          That roster needs to be gutted. Start over.
          "It may well be that we spectators, who are not divinely gifted as athletes, are the only ones able to truly see, articulate and animate the experience of the gift we are denied. And that those who receive and act out the gift of athletic genius must, perforce, be blind and dumb about it -- and not because blindness and dumbness are the price of the gift, but because they are its essence." - David Foster Wallace

          "You'll not find more penny-wise/pound-foolish behavior than in Major League Baseball." - Rob Neyer

          Comment

          • Vince
            Bow for Bau
            • Aug 2002
            • 26017

            #6
            Re: Near mutiny in Toronto!Lo

            I still want Roy to stay...

            Hill and Lind are cornerstones. Snider as well. The pitching staff with McGowan and Marcum coming back as well as rookie sensation Ricky Romero is very good.

            The rest of the team needs to go. Vernon needs to go even if it means paying for over half his remaining salary. Because he makes so much we pretty much have to start him, but he's such a bad player now it's not even funny. He need to GTFO now
            @ me or dap me

            http://twitter.com/52isthemike

            Comment

            • SPTO
              binging
              • Feb 2003
              • 68046

              #7
              Re: Near mutiny in Toronto!Lo

              I'm dancing on air!

              BYE BYE JP DON'T LET THE DOOR HIT YOU ON THE WAY OUT!

              As for the roster being gutted half the work is done anyways as there's only a year left on Overbay's contract, there's no real 3B right now, Scutaro is a FA this offseason and Barajas too. The cornerstones for the club are signed long term tho I think Hill is up for arbitration? (someone correct me on that) This team is NOT that far away. They need a fresh pair of eyes and some steady guidance.

              There's two ways this could play out: The Bob McCown option or a variation on it or going on the cheap.

              1. The McCown Option: Influential radio host Bob McCown has been calling for this since about the All Star Break and it goes like this. Beeston sticks around for 2 more years, they hire Pat Gillick for 2 seasons and money be damned the Jays will spend like there's no tomorrow. There's also another option which came up a while ago via Twitter that says Beeston has found the new President and it's Pat Gillick. He'll hire Tim Wilkin who more or less "grew up" in the Blue Jays organization. Unlike hapless ol' Gord Ash Wilken is a baseball man. He's spotted some fine talent as an amateur scout for the Jays and went on to work for the Rays and last with the Cubs in the role of Director of Amateur and Pro Scouting.

              2. The On the Cheap plan: This is the one I fear most. The biggest problem with the Blue Jays isn't necessarily the people that do the day to day operations but rather the people at the top. There's a very real perception that Rogers Communications doesn't give a damn about the team and is using their ownership as a media platform rather then actually making a concerted effort to make the club better which is why Godfrey lasted as long as he did and why JP had an 8 year reign of horror. You know, Toronto is the 4th largest media market with a huge population size and arguably a stronger economic/financial base then Boston but the team is run so cheaply that it makes Toronto look 2nd rate. I'm not saying this team has to have a 190 million dollar payroll but c'mon! You can't sit there and seriously say that Toronto doesn't have the resources to at least be in the neighborhood.

              We'll have to see what happens. I actually wouldn't mind the Jays throwing a ton of money and luring one of the big name GMs in the league even if means there's compensation involved.
              Member of the Official OS Bills Backers Club

              "Baseball is the most important thing that doesn't matter at all" - Robert B. Parker

              Comment

              • duke776
                MVP
                • Nov 2006
                • 3044

                #8
                Re: Near mutiny in Toronto!Lo

                Originally posted by SPTO
                The cornerstones for the club are signed long term tho I think Hill is up for arbitration? (someone correct me on that)
                Nope, he's signed through 2011 with club options for '12, '13, and '14(although '14 has to be decided on before 2011 season ends if the Jays want to pick it up).

                Comment

                • SlimKibbles
                  Supporter
                  • Apr 2004
                  • 7276

                  #9
                  Re: Near mutiny in Toronto!Lo

                  Blow up the roster and bring back the uni's circa 1992.
                  MLB: Cincinnati Reds
                  NFL: Cincinnati Bengals
                  NCAA Hoops: Xavier Musketeers
                  NCAA Football: Miami Hurricanes
                  NHL: Calgary Flames

                  "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." - Edmund Burke

                  "The wisest men follow their own direction." - Euripides

                  Comment

                  • CMH
                    Making you famous
                    • Oct 2002
                    • 26203

                    #10
                    Re: Near mutiny in Toronto!Lo

                    Originally posted by SlimKibbles
                    Blow up the roster and bring back the uni's circa 1992.
                    As a Yankees fan, I fear this move.
                    "It may well be that we spectators, who are not divinely gifted as athletes, are the only ones able to truly see, articulate and animate the experience of the gift we are denied. And that those who receive and act out the gift of athletic genius must, perforce, be blind and dumb about it -- and not because blindness and dumbness are the price of the gift, but because they are its essence." - David Foster Wallace

                    "You'll not find more penny-wise/pound-foolish behavior than in Major League Baseball." - Rob Neyer

                    Comment

                    • SPTO
                      binging
                      • Feb 2003
                      • 68046

                      #11
                      Re: Near mutiny in Toronto!Lo

                      Originally posted by YankeePride
                      As a Yankees fan, I fear this move.
                      You have nothing to fear it seems like the assistant GM has been promoted (at least he's talking like he has been) so it's going to be more of the same. Hopefully he's just excited that he's the interim guy and he misspoke or i'm going to cry come opening day.
                      Member of the Official OS Bills Backers Club

                      "Baseball is the most important thing that doesn't matter at all" - Robert B. Parker

                      Comment

                      • VanCitySportsGuy
                        NYG_Meth
                        • Feb 2003
                        • 9351

                        #12
                        Re: Near mutiny in Toronto!Lo

                        I’ve been waiting for this day for over 2 years. Mercifully the 8 year reign of error has finally come to an end. JP Ricciardi did something that I thought was impossible, he made me miss Gord Ash.

                        JP Ricciardi failed as a General Manager in almost every aspect. The truth is that the Jays didn’t play a single meaningful game in August during his tenure. The Jays have fallen so far off of the map, even organizational soldier Roy Halladay wants out. The 25 man roster isn’t good enough to compete for a playoff spot and the farm system is in terrible shape. When your best prospect is Zack Stewart or Henderson Alvarez you know your farm system is awful. It’s ironic that JP will now be a sunk cost when he created so many of these himself. While I give him credit for some smart low profile free agent signings, most of his big ticket items have been a disaster.

                        He also couldn’t keep his mouth shut. He popped off at Adam Dunn, Gil Meche, Keith Law, Jays fan on WWJP, the BJ Ryan lie, etc…..

                        What floors me is that there are still JP supporters out there. I almost want to puke every time somebody says he simply hasn’t been lucky enough. I have some land in Compton I want to sell you………

                        The most puzzling thing isn’t the timing of the firing, it’s the fact a new permanent General Manager has already been promoted when the team doesn’t even have a permanent President in place. What harm is there in conducting a search for the next General Manager while giving the interim tag to Anthopoulos? Does Ownership believe their Organization is such a joke, they don’t even believe any qualified candidates would even accept a job interview? While I am happy Ricciardi is no longer associated with the Jays, this move is merely putting lipstick on a pig. The Jays need a complete makeover from Ownership all the way down to the Mascots.

                        Comment

                        • SPTO
                          binging
                          • Feb 2003
                          • 68046

                          #13
                          Re: Near mutiny in Toronto!Lo

                          Originally posted by VanCitySportsGuy

                          The most puzzling thing isn’t the timing of the firing, it’s the fact a new permanent General Manager has already been promoted when the team doesn’t even have a permanent President in place. What harm is there in conducting a search for the next General Manager while giving the interim tag to Anthopoulos? Does Ownership believe their Organization is such a joke, they don’t even believe any qualified candidates would even accept a job interview? While I am happy Ricciardi is no longer associated with the Jays, this move is merely putting lipstick on a pig. The Jays need a complete makeover from Ownership all the way down to the Mascots.
                          The speculation is that Beeston is no longer an interim guy and will be the permanent president hence why Anthopoulos was hired immediately (though that sure doesn't sound like a Beeston move. He'd at least interview other people) Apparently Beeston is awestruck by the kid's knowledge of baseball and the inner workings of the game which kinda scares me because that's the same trap Godfrey fell into when he hired JP.

                          Speaking of Godfrey, the guy is a sack of you know what. He goes on the radio and says that if he was still the President in '09 JP would've been fired. Wait, you needed 7 years to even contemplate firing a guy who you were having doubts about?

                          OHHHH BOY
                          Member of the Official OS Bills Backers Club

                          "Baseball is the most important thing that doesn't matter at all" - Robert B. Parker

                          Comment

                          • VanCitySportsGuy
                            NYG_Meth
                            • Feb 2003
                            • 9351

                            #14
                            Re: Near mutiny in Toronto!Lo

                            Originally posted by SPTO
                            The speculation is that Beeston is no longer an interim guy and will be the permanent president hence why Anthopoulos was hired immediately (though that sure doesn't sound like a Beeston move. He'd at least interview other people) Apparently Beeston is awestruck by the kid's knowledge of baseball and the inner workings of the game which kinda scares me because that's the same trap Godfrey fell into when he hired JP.

                            Speaking of Godfrey, the guy is a sack of you know what. He goes on the radio and says that if he was still the President in '09 JP would've been fired. Wait, you needed 7 years to even contemplate firing a guy who you were having doubts about?

                            OHHHH BOY
                            Beeston has stated numerous times he doesn't want to be the full time president. Jeff Blair said he will still be a hands on advisor though. Beeston has already said he will tell the new Presdient that AA should be retained as the GM. The Jays have it backwards. They name a GM before they have a President and they don't even bother to interview other potential GM's. The Jays are a complete disaster. Ownership doesn't care about the team, the 25 man roster isn't good, the farm system is in terrible shape, etc.....

                            Godfrey should be ignored. Not only did he go on and on about how great JP was last year on OTR but he told season ticket holders there would be "panic in the streets of Boston" a few years ago. This is the same fool that praised all the big free agent signings that turned out to be busts.

                            Comment

                            • SPTO
                              binging
                              • Feb 2003
                              • 68046

                              #15
                              Re: Near mutiny in Toronto!Lo

                              Originally posted by VanCitySportsGuy
                              Beeston has stated numerous times he doesn't want to be the full time president. Jeff Blair said he will still be a hands on advisor though. Beeston has already said he will tell the new Presdient that AA should be retained as the GM. The Jays have it backwards. They name a GM before they have a President and they don't even bother to interview other potential GM's. The Jays are a complete disaster. Ownership doesn't care about the team, the 25 man roster isn't good, the farm system is in terrible shape, etc.....
                              Ah, I didn't peruse the papers this morning. Well CRAP!

                              Hopefully the new prexy keeps AA as a courtesy for one year then throw him off this sinking ship.

                              BTW did you hear the rumor that JP is being considered for the asst. GM job for the Mets? As you know the assistant is usually the mouthpiece for the GM and well....NYC will have a field day with JP if they let him speak to the media much.
                              Member of the Official OS Bills Backers Club

                              "Baseball is the most important thing that doesn't matter at all" - Robert B. Parker

                              Comment

                              Working...