NLCS: Phillies vs Dodgers

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  • daflyboys
    Banned
    • May 2003
    • 18238

    #466
    Re: NLCS: Phillies vs Dodgers

    Ya but his ERA home/road disparity is a head scratcher. Still, when TBS flashed it up there, I got some instant confidence. That, and knowing he was brought in in the 8th and knowing he had to trot out there in the 9th. Closers don't seem to like that.

    Comment

    • Marino
      Moderator
      • Jan 2008
      • 18113

      #467
      Re: NLCS: Phillies vs Dodgers

      Originally posted by DTX3
      You overreact too much.
      I have been saying this for 3 years.

      Comment

      • DTX3
        Hall Of Fame
        • Jun 2003
        • 13022

        #468
        Re: NLCS: Phillies vs Dodgers

        Originally posted by Marino
        I have been saying this for 3 years.
        Good day sir.

        Broxton should be released

        His career is over anyway. Right?

        1. Jonathan Broxton just can't handle the heat in close games.

        This is a particularly odd claim because the opposite argument is actually valid. Broxton seems to get better as the run differential decreases. In other words, there's a case to be made that Broxton loses concentration when he enters games that are already decided.

        Gee, I guess he does need to get mentally tougher.

        2. All the statistics in the world don't change the fact that he blew the save.

        True, but what is the point of making a statement like this? The only way any closer could ever escape this criticism is if he never blew a save in his career. Good luck on your quest for that pitcher.

        3. Jonathan Broxton blows the big games.

        Correct me if i'm wrong here, but isn't every game in the postseason a big game? It is to me. Is the argument here really that it would be acceptable for Broxton to blow Game 2 of the NLCS or Game 1 of the NLDS? I can't fathom somebody who would actually believe that.

        So again, the standard here is that he is not allowed to blow a postseason game. Like I said before, good luck finding that pitcher.

        4. I don't care what your numbers say, I know what I saw!

        That's fine to say, but is this really a serious argument?

        By that logic, I am free to believe Albert Pujols is the worst player in history because he had a mere 1 RBI against the Dodgers. Of course, that would make me an idiot, which is sort of my point.

        To the people who use this argument, can you please tell me what qualifies you to see things at a level that is above everybody else? Why should we listen to what you say because of what your eyes tell you? What makes you so different from us? Answer that and i'll give credibility to your whining.

        Personally, I have always relied to a blend of scouting type analysis and objective information. Yes, I do mainly rely on statistics, and that's because I like my opinions to be grounded in facts, not presumption. What a thought.

        5. You're just being a homer.

        Possibly the most hilarious accusation of my analysis when you consider that this blog was started primarily to critique players and management, not praise them.

        Casey Blake's OPS this NLCS is .267, but I still think he's a solid player. If that makes me a homer, then i'm not sure what the standards are.

        I'm a homer for supporting one of the best closers in the majors through some tough times? I'm a homer for not believing the Dodgers should trade Clayton Kershaw and Matt Kemp after their poor NLCS? I'm a homer for not wanting to go back to the 90s version of the Dodgers which was full of old men who couldn't even make the playoffs? I'm a homer because I don't see how the onus of an entire team's failure should fall on one man because he blew a save?

        Then fine, I accept that title and wear it proudly.

        6. So it's fine to have a closer that's awesome until the NLCS?

        Nope, it's not okay. However, I think it's a tad ridiculous to presume that Broxton is completely fine in high pressure situations throughout the regular season and into the NLDS, but then once the NLCS comes around he collapses. As if pitching in the NLCS turns him into putty or something.

        We currently have two series worth of games to judge him with in that case. If you want to roll forward with your overstated opinions then fine, but I expect you to take all such sample sizes seriously.

        "Vicente Padilla is the greatest pitcher in NLCS history."

        Nobody who believes that Broxton suddenly pressures out in the NLCS should have a problem with that statement.

        Who else would you want out there besides Jonathan Broxton?

        The initial reaction from most fans I talk to is "anybody", but before we all nod our heads in agreement, let's take a look at the reality of the situation.

        Mariano Rivera, probably the greatest closer ever, blew three of the most memorable games in postseason baseball history. He blew back-to-back games in the infamous 2004 Yankees collapse against the Red Sox, and he blew Game 7 of the World Series in 2001.

        Jonathan Papelbon just had one of the worst postseason closer meltdowns I have ever seen in the 2009 ALDS against the Angels.

        I realize both of those guys have won World Series and have had postseason success, so i'll surrender the point on those two closers.

        But who else?

        Joe Nathan? Nope. He singled handedly wrecked the Twins chances against the Yankees in the 2009 ALCS. Nathan has never been on a team that has won a postseason series.

        Brian Fuentes? Laughable. He's way worse than Broxton in terms of overall skill, he has never been on a World Series winner, and he has a postseason track record of getting wrecked.

        Ryan Franklin? Hahaha.

        Trevor Hoffman? He has rapidly declining skills and doesn't really compare to Broxton. Besides, he's never been on a World Series winning team, and that was likely due to the fact that he got destroyed by the Yankees in the 1998 World Series.

        Fernando Rodney? He's in the same boat as Hoffman. Bad skills? Check. Never won a World Series? Check. Never won a World Series partially due to his own poor pitching? Check.

        Huston Street? You saw the other 2009 NLDS series, right?

        Francisco Rodriguez? Finally, a relief pitcher with a ring. Unfortunately, he got that ring as a setup man, not a closer. He has given up 7 runs in 13 postseason innings as a closer and has never been on a World Series winning team as a closer.

        Chad Qualls? Zero postseason saves and has been generally horrid in the postseason. Inferior pitcher. Hasn't won a World Series.

        Kerry Wood? Zero postseason saves. A mere three innings as a postseason reliever. Inferior pitcher. Hasn't won a World Series.

        Jose Valverde? Inferior skills to Broxton and has only had four postseason innings. Hasn't won a World Series.

        Bobby Jenks? Inferior skills to Broxton, but this might be the only other legit case. He has a World Series win and has had success in the postseason. Still though, taking Jenks would cause me to seriously question whether or not I believe he is the third best closer in the major leagues today.

        Brad Lidge? The funny thing is that he has a positive overall postseason track record and he now has a World Series to his name. It's funny because he surrendered the most memorable postseason home run in recent history to Albert Pujols. His skills are remarkably inconsistent as well. He goes from elite to crap to elite to crap at what seems like random. You can take him if you want, but i'll stay away from the fluctuations.

        Heath Bell, Francisco Cordero, Brian Wilson, David Aardsma, Rafael Soriano, Matt Capps, Andrew Bailey, Leo Nunez, Frank Francisco and Joakim Soria are all current closers, but none of them have any postseason experience, so I don't see how they would match the desired standards of a postseason closer.

        So after reading all of that garbage, who would you like to close out Game 5 of the NLCS? I would take Mariano Rivera and Jonathan Papelbon and that's about it. Good luck getting them on the Dodgers before tomorrow.

        You want Jonathan Broxton released? You want him traded? You want him demoted? That's fine, it's your opinion and you can cling to it if you wish.

        All i'm saying is to be careful what you wish for.

        You just might get it.
        XBL: DTX3
        PSN: DTX987
        WII U: DodgerBlue760

        Comment

        • phillyfan23
          MVP
          • Feb 2005
          • 2319

          #469
          Re: NLCS: Phillies vs Dodgers

          Broxton has all the tools to be the BEST closer in the majors for the next 4-6 years. His biggest mistake last night was stairs. It was so obvious he wanted no part of him. Stairs hit under .200 this year, and you just can't play scared as the closer. just like an LA article said, Broxton was haunted by last year's game 4.

          All great closers go through rough patches like the article above mentioned.

          Lidge took 2 years to recover from Pujols' HR.

          What Broxton MIGHT need is a change of scenery after this, like Lidge did and that could do wonders for him.....maybe not.

          Hell, the dodgers could still win this series with Broxton saving all three.

          Comment

          • Marino
            Moderator
            • Jan 2008
            • 18113

            #470
            Re: NLCS: Phillies vs Dodgers

            Originally posted by DTX3
            Good day sir.
            Daniel, me and Broxton have a love/hate relationship. Right now we are in the hate phase. :wink:

            I will say this, he needs to use the slider more along with his fastball. He won't strike everyone out with 100mph gas, as we saw yesterday. And maybe get a cut fastball or a 2 seam fastball. The straight 4 seam just won't make him elite.

            Comment

            • slickdtc
              Grayscale
              • Aug 2004
              • 17125

              #471
              Re: NLCS: Phillies vs Dodgers

              DTX3, great article. The guy messed up last night. That sucks for him and the Dodgers. Does that mean he's bad in any way, shape, or form? Hell no. One bad game, one bad inning. That's it. He's being judged on one bad inning.

              Does not compute.
              NHL - Philadelphia Flyers
              NFL - Buffalo Bills
              MLB - Cincinnati Reds


              Originally posted by Money99
              And how does one levy a check that will result in only a slight concussion? Do they set their shoulder-pads to 'stun'?

              Comment

              • TheMatrix31
                RF
                • Jul 2002
                • 52920

                #472
                Re: NLCS: Phillies vs Dodgers

                Originally posted by slickdtc
                DTX3, great article. The guy messed up last night. That sucks for him and the Dodgers. Does that mean he's bad in any way, shape, or form? Hell no. One bad game, one bad inning. That's it. He's being judged on one bad inning.

                Does not compute.
                Well....you ARE often judged by what you do on the big stage. So far, in back to back years, he's blown games to the Phillies in dramatic, improbable fashion. That doesn't bode well.

                Comment

                • Marino
                  Moderator
                  • Jan 2008
                  • 18113

                  #473
                  Re: NLCS: Phillies vs Dodgers

                  Originally posted by slickdtc
                  DTX3, great article. The guy messed up last night. That sucks for him and the Dodgers. Does that mean he's bad in any way, shape, or form? Hell no. One bad game, one bad inning. That's it. He's being judged on one bad inning.

                  Does not compute.
                  I judged him on his performances in 2 years. But he is still young, and I think he will get better.

                  Comment

                  • dodgerblue
                    MVP
                    • Feb 2003
                    • 1239

                    #474
                    Re: NLCS: Phillies vs Dodgers

                    At least the Angels aren't going to make it either. It would have killed me listening to all their fans around town. If the boys it blue don't get there, I certainly don't want the Angels making it.
                    Pitchers and Catchers Report; Life Worth Living Again

                    Comment

                    • TheMatrix31
                      RF
                      • Jul 2002
                      • 52920

                      #475
                      Re: NLCS: Phillies vs Dodgers

                      It's 3-1 and three of the four games have been razor close. They could have gone either way. I wouldn't lose hope.

                      Comment

                      • TheMatrix31
                        RF
                        • Jul 2002
                        • 52920

                        #476
                        Re: NLCS: Phillies vs Dodgers

                        Does Cliff Lee go in Game 6?

                        Comment

                        • TheMatrix31
                          RF
                          • Jul 2002
                          • 52920

                          #477
                          Re: NLCS: Phillies vs Dodgers

                          <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/nyC6vSwwtEs&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/nyC6vSwwtEs&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

                          What are we waiting for? Take this!

                          Comment

                          • DTX3
                            Hall Of Fame
                            • Jun 2003
                            • 13022

                            #478
                            Re: NLCS: Phillies vs Dodgers

                            Still can't believe we put the season in Vincente Padilla's hands.
                            XBL: DTX3
                            PSN: DTX987
                            WII U: DodgerBlue760

                            Comment

                            • DTX3
                              Hall Of Fame
                              • Jun 2003
                              • 13022

                              #479
                              Re: NLCS: Phillies vs Dodgers

                              Damn, it's a home run derby out there tonight. Hopefully Hamels continues to pitch this way.
                              XBL: DTX3
                              PSN: DTX987
                              WII U: DodgerBlue760

                              Comment

                              • TheMatrix31
                                RF
                                • Jul 2002
                                • 52920

                                #480
                                Re: NLCS: Phillies vs Dodgers

                                Wow man, the ball is JUMPING!

                                Comment

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