Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

[Speedy]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

I've never thought Helton was better than Andruw.

Ever.

I guess that's why Andruw has 12 more fWAR in 50 less games.

Or why Andruw had NINE seasons above 4.5 fWAR while Helton five.

...but hey, I'm no HOF voter so what do I know. [emoji2369]

Edit: another season for Andruw above 4.5 fWAR

[DamnYanks2]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Helton is definitely one who benefits from the "he had a normal non-steroid career arc" narrative. His power numbers fell off quick, but his average was good. He gets in because of the vacuum left by all the great players the Hall is ignoring on purpose. Best season he ever had was 5th in MVP voting.

Even though a AVG is overrated. I marvel at a guy that had a career. 316 batting avg now.

There's not many guys like that left. Coors effect or not. It's still insane.

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[DamnYanks2]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

I've never thought Helton was better than Andruw.

Ever.

I guess that's why Andruw has 12 more fWAR in 50 less games.

Or why Andruw had eight seasons above 4.5 fWAR while Helton five.

...but hey, I'm no HOF voter so what do I know. [emoji2369]

Andruw should be in. It's questionable that he isn't.

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[dubcity]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

I've never thought Helton was better than Andruw.

Ever.

I guess that's why Andruw has 12 more fWAR in 50 less games.

Or why Andruw had NINE seasons above 4.5 fWAR while Helton five.

...but hey, I'm no HOF voter so what do I know. [emoji2369]

Edit: another season for Andruw above 4.5 fWAR

And a 10 time gold glover. That should matter more.

[DrJones]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Remember, Andruw almost got dropped off the ballot his 1st year of eligibility (7.3% in 2018)! If Jones retired with a career-ending injury at age 30, he'd have been a 1st or 2nd ballot Hall of Famer. Unfortunately, he got labelled as a "fat and lazy underachiever" over the last few years of his career, and was punished for it. (The Gold Club stuff probably didn't help much either.)

Those accusations weren't unwarranted! But it doesn't change the fact that Andruw is almost certainly the greatest defensive CF ever, and he hit 454 home runs. That combination trumps everything else as far as I'm concerned.

[DamnYanks2]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

The way the BBWA votes is just so inconsistent. That's my biggest issue. I mean even Griffey wasn't 100% unanimous.

What kind of jackass says. Let's make Griffey wait a year? Same with Beltre. What could possibly not make you vote for him? You have to be a pos.

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[Speedy]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Well I think it's also where writers don't vote for a lock to keep others on the ballot?

[Ghost Of The Year]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Idiots. He should of been a slam dunk.

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Beltre did get baseball's version of the slam dunk. Very very few players get at least 95% of the vote. Less than 25 players all-time given the same ringing endorsement Beltre received.

[DamnYanks2]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Well I think it's also where writers don't vote for a lock to keep others on the ballot?

Whatever the case the whole system is garbage. Gary Sheffield getting more votes then Andruw Jones is ridiculous. You'll never find a better all around center fielder.

[Master Live 013]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

That is one of my criticism of the process, the fact they limit how many players you can have in your ballot, it should be unlimited.

They worry that writers would keep candidates "alive" if they go that route, but I don't see the problem, there are already ways the field is cull.

There is the 5% threshold and there is the 10 year limit. If a player's candidacy is kept "alive" by getting 5% for the whole 10 years what's the problem?

[Master Live 013]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

As for Andruw, there is 0 chance the Veterans Committee doesn't elect him.

[IndianSummer]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

One of many over the decades.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/b...ng_Percentages

I know, I am an old guy and remember when Mickey Mantle got elected and wondered how he wasn’t a slam dunk. He was and still is the most prolific switch hitter in baseball.
That list you linked to will not increase my faith any in the system.

[DrJones]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

I think many baseball fans falsely assume that:

a.) the BBWAA voting ranks are comprised of current/recent beat writers and national MLB writers, but there are a lot of old cranks on there who haven't covered baseball for years and hold grudges. A lot of those guys have thankfully been purged over the last 10 years, but there are still a few weirdos around.

b.) all eligible voters take this seriously. Most do, some clearly don't.

https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=F2E5D8FC5199DFAF%2154244&authkey=!AGrU1OUsbz4WHyU

Unsurprisingly, the ones who don't release their votes publicly tend to be... idiosyncratic, to put it kindly.

Adrian Beltre: named on 99.1% of public ballots, only 89.8% of private ones
Andruw Jones: named on 69.4% of public ballots, only 51.2% of private ones

[Speedy]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

All ballots should be public.

Let's make that change.

[DamnYanks2]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Holy hell, tell me how Todd Helton finished 5th in MVP voting in 2000. This is absurd.Screenshot_20240123-222228.jpg