Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?
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Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?
Why does it matter? If he still puts up HoF quality numbers on the road, why does it matter if there is a large drop off?Denver Broncos
Colorado Rockies
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Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?
Not only are his numbers not quite as good as the full stats of the other players noted, but he's a first baseman, where expectations for offense are higher. The only other 1B on that list, Pujols, blows Helton out of the water."Twelve at-bats is a pretty decent sample size." - Eric ByrnesComment
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Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?
If his road splits didn't even compare to those players, like hitting .260-.270, then I could see an issue.Denver Broncos
Colorado Rockies
Denver NuggetsComment
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"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." - Rogers HornsbyComment
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Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?
For 5 straight years, (2000-2004) He had an OPS in the stratosphere. He was arguably one of the top offensive threats in the league. A career OBP of .417. And was one of the top players in a steroid era, and as far as we know is clean.
I think what really hurts him is he only had 5 years of 100 or more rbi's, and he's a first basemen, like someone said. But you can't deny a career .317 average or the OBP.
His defense was so so. but it wasn't bad.
I don't compare Helton to every first basemen in the hall, I compare him to the players in his era. As far as era is concerned, i think he's in, I would vote him in.Comment
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Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?
Just like if I say a guy hit .300 and hit 40 homers one year. Now if I tell you he did it in 1968 instead of 1930 or 1998 you know it's a special year. Home parks are no different...you must adjust for it. Doesn't mean Helton hasn't been a darn good player for a long time, but he wasn't putting up his numbers in an offensively deflated period or in a pitcher's park, which is going to get held against him."People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." - Rogers HornsbyComment
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Member of The OS Baseball Rocket Scientists AssociationComment
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Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?
It doesn't make sense.. he was still a HoF caliber hitter on the road.
I still strongly disagree with this "so so" defense talk. He won 3 Gold Gloves and easily could've won more.Denver Broncos
Colorado Rockies
Denver NuggetsComment
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Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?
Okay...the flip side, should we not adjust a guy who plays his whole career in the Astrodome? Everything is about context. If I told you I sold a big home for $300K and that's all I told you, you don't know if that's a good deal or not. Now if I tell you it was in San Diego you have an idea that maybe I should have gotten more for it.
Just like if I say a guy hit .300 and hit 40 homers one year. Now if I tell you he did it in 1968 instead of 1930 or 1998 you know it's a special year. Home parks are no different...you must adjust for it. Doesn't mean Helton hasn't been a darn good player for a long time, but he wasn't putting up his numbers in an offensively deflated period or in a pitcher's park, which is going to get held against him.
There's also this
Since 1901, only 12 first basemen have at least 4 qualifying seasons with an OPS+ of at least 160:
Rk Yrs From To Age
1 Lou Gehrig 11 1927 1937 24-34 Ind. Seasons
2 Jimmie Foxx 8 1929 1939 21-31 Ind. Seasons
3 Johnny Mize 7 1936 1947 23-34 Ind. Seasons
4 Albert Pujols 6 2004 2010 24-30 Ind. Seasons
5 Mark McGwire 6 1987 1999 23-35 Ind. Seasons
6 Frank Thomas 6 1992 1997 24-29 Ind. Seasons
7 Jason Giambi 4 2000 2005 29-34 Ind. Seasons
8 Todd Helton 4 2000 2004 26-30 Ind. Seasons
9 Jeff Bagwell 4 1994 1999 26-31 Ind. Seasons
10 Willie McCovey 4 1966 1970 28-32 Ind. Seasons
11 Hank Greenberg 4 1935 1946 24-35 Ind. Seasons
12 Jack Fournier 4 1915 1925 25-35 Ind. Seasons
Sorry, that didn't come out as clean as I wanted. Grabbed from Baseball reference.Last edited by DamnYanks2; 07-21-2013, 07:01 PM.Comment
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