Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

[Chip Douglass]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Doesn't Beltran have a reputation for being an October god? Pretty sure he still holds the record for most home runs in a postseason (8 in 2004).

I don't think that will buy him enough credit with the voters though. Beltran is sort of the ultimate "sum is better than the whole of its parts" player. Good hitter, but not a great one. Good fielder, but not a great one. Excellent baserunner, but it doesn't show up in SB totals. Won't come particularly close to the milestone numbers that guarantee enshrinement. The total package is a HOF player IMO, but he unfortunately accumulated that value in non-sexy ways that the voters woefully undervalue. Only 2 top-10 MVP finishes in 18 seasons is an example of that.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Curt Schilling was a far superior regular season AND postseason pitcher than Pettitte, and he can't crack 40% of the BBWAA vote. Pettitte's never getting in.

I'd be fine with both getting in, using my own personal "Is this guy a HOF or not?" assessments, which aren't particularly based on anything terribly definable, lol.

[Chip Douglass]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

It doesn't help that pitching standards have been ridiculously raised since 4 of the 10 greatest pitchers in baseball history were simultaneously dominant within our lifetimes (Maddux, Clemens, Johnson, and Pedro).

Schilling is an objective 1st ballot, no-doubter for me, but looks borderline compared to those four. And he happened to have his best years while pitching alongside one of those guys on the list.

[jvalverde88]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

If Beltran doesn't make it, you know why.

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NOTE: You never asked for a legitimate argument.

I thought we were cool Doc, I thought we were cool.

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Any sympathy votes for Chase Utley?

I'm pretty sure he's not getting in since even saber guys will be turned off by his lack of longevity, but the peak was special: 5 straight years of 7+ WAR. The list of guys who have accomplished that basically consists of inner-circle HOFers.

Another fascinating case of a guy who lies on one of the extreme ends of the peak vs. longevity spectrum. I would vote him, but I'm more partial to peak than career.

Only two second basemen are ahead of Utley on the JAWS leaderboard and NOT already in the hall: Bobby Grich and Lou Whitaker. Despite his lack of longevity, Utley is also ahead of guys like Roberto Alomar and Craig Biggio in JAWS and pretty close to them in overall WAR.

In terms of brevity of MLB career at 2B, Utley and Jackie Robinson are somewhat comparable statistically speaking with Utley having more pop and Jackie never striking out being the major differences. Both had a pretty stupid ridiculous 5-year run where they did most of their damage. Of course Jackie Robinson breaking the color barrier is enough to get him into the HoF even if he was awful, so the comparison is certainly not predictive.

[DamnYanks2]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Super underrated. Bobby Abreu. Check out his stat line. I remember him getting alot of walks, he was one of the most patient hitters I had ever seen when he played for the Yankees. But, his obp for Philadelphia was bonkers and I never realized how many sb's he had. Throw out his defense, and I don't even think he's borderline. He should be in.

[Chip Douglass]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

No on Abreu, since the peak wasn't good enough for me.

[DamnYanks2]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

No on Abreu, since the peak wasn't good enough for me.

Yea that's the one real knock on him, he never really dominated. But he stayed on the field and produced at a very high level for a long time, I think that's got to be in the discussion. He's not really a case for the Hall of very good, I think he's exceeded that in my opinion, I doubt he gets in anyway, but I'd give him my vote.

[redsox4evur]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Yea that's the one real knock on him, he never really dominated. But he stayed on the field and produced at a very high level for a long time, I think that's got to be in the discussion. He's not really a case for the Hall of very good, I think he's exceeded that in my opinion, I doubt he gets in anyway, but I'd give him my vote.

He's in the Hall of Very Good but not HOF. Same category as Posada or Bernie Williams.

[Speedy]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

I think Andruw Jones should be considered for the HOF.

Best defensive CF ever in my mind.

[Chip Douglass]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

I think Andruw Jones should be considered for the HOF.

Best defensive CF ever in my mind.

434 HRs, 8th highest defensive WAR ever, and six 6+ WAR seasons is a HOFer to me.

[AC]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

The peak was there, but idk about the longevity. He was awful from 31-35.

[redsox4evur]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

The peak was there, but idk about the longevity. He was awful from 31-35.

I really hate this example but I am going to use it because it fits my agenda. Look at Pedro's age 32-37 seasons. Those were some bad seasons there as well. So he didn't really end his career that well either. And he was a first ballot HOFer. I would say Jones is a yes, I think the media members liked him and he isn't suspected of using PEDs. I would say it takes him 3-5 years to get with all of the talent that is coming up soon.

[AC]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

I really hate this example but I am going to use it because it fits my agenda. Look at Pedro's age 32-37 seasons. Those were some bad seasons there as well. So he didn't really end his career that well either. And he was a first ballot HOFer. I would say Jones is a yes, I think the media members liked him and he isn't suspected of using PEDs. I would say it takes him 3-5 years to get with all of the talent that is coming up soon.

Pedro posted an xFIP better than league average every one of those years except for 2008, in which he posted an xFIP 2% worse than league average

He was still a great pitcher all the way up to 37. Not similar at all.

[redsox4evur]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Pedro posted an xFIP better than league average every one of those years except for 2008, in which he posted an xFIP 2% worse than league average

He was still a great pitcher all the way up to 37. Not similar at all.

I didn't look at the advanced stats. So I guess I was wrong.