UZR: Thoughts?

[snepp]

Re: UZR: Thoughts?

There would be no reason not to move him up the "list". I still do not understand why you think SABR folks on this board have some sort of personal vendetta against Ryan Howard.

You should see the responses I get from Twins fans when I try to argue that Morneau is barely a top 10 first baseman, it's not pretty.

[P2K]

Re: UZR: Thoughts?

There would be no reason not to move him up the "list". I still do not understand why you think SABR folks on this board have some sort of personal vendetta against Ryan Howard.

Well, we know one does (Ewing). But the rest of you are fair.

I don't see what was the need to bring up Howard. I'll let JBH3 sink by his lonely on this one

[JBH3]

Re: UZR: Thoughts?

Well, we know one does (Ewing). But the rest of you are fair.

I don't see what was the need to bring up Howard. I'll let JBH3 sink by his lonely on this one

The reason for me mentioning Howard, at least his defensive placement in the OP, was the fact that what I was seeing with my own two eyes this year translated into a pretty good defensive year from on otherwise paltry-classified defensive 1B.

However, during the times in which I was saying this, it was dismissed as homerism and bias because I'm not watching Howard and Teixiera every night so how do I know who's better defensively?

Howard improved greatly in the field this past year, I think that's illustrated here, and I think I was right when I was giving my 'bias' outlook in that infamous Ryan Howard thread.

[Coug00]

Re: UZR: Thoughts?

The reason for me mentioning Howard, at least his defensive placement in the OP, was the fact that what I was seeing with my own two eyes this year translated into a pretty good defensive year from on otherwise paltry-classified defensive 1B.

However, during the times in which I was saying this, it was dismissed as homerism and bias because I'm not watching Howard and Teixiera every night so how do I know who's better defensively?

Howard improved greatly in the field this past year, I think that's illustrated here, and I think I was right when I was giving my 'bias' outlook in that infamous Ryan Howard thread.

Since you're using UZR as justification for your opinion of Howard's defensive improvement, there's one small little problem...

2008 UZR - 2.4
2009 UZR - 1.2

[TheLetterZ]

Re: UZR: Thoughts?

My eyes also tell me that Howard improved defensively this past year. Again, I don't think UZR measures first basemen well.

[Coug00]

Re: UZR: Thoughts?

My eyes also tell me that Howard improved defensively this past year. Again, I don't think UZR measures first basemen well.

Exactly, but you're not attempting to use UZR to prove you're right over long dead disagreements.

[JBH3]

Re: UZR: Thoughts?

Exactly, but you're not attempting to use UZR to prove you're right over long dead disagreements.

...your point?

[snepp]

Re: UZR: Thoughts?

Let sleeping dogs lie?

[Coug00]

Re: UZR: Thoughts?

...your point?

In this thread you used UZR as a justification for your opinion on Ryan Howard's defense. That means you believe UZR for 1B is acceptable.

If that's the case, then you're flat out wrong because UZR says he regressed from 2008 to 2009.

If that's not the case, I have no idea why you brought Ryan Howard up, again.

[JBH3]

Re: UZR: Thoughts?

Let sleeping dogs lie?

The idea that the Howard thread was a dead argument is untrue. The thread was locked, and had no resolution.

Have you or Coug ever felt compelled to defend someone? Take the Elton Brand thread in the NBA forum as another example similar to this Ryan Howard thread. I got tired of posting in there on a nightly basis, I'll just update his numbers at the end of each month, to illustrate the OP was wrong.

So like that example, and this one here...where Howards fielding from first is recognized as 8th best in the league I feel compelled to argue his uh I guess 'status'. Especially since my personal view was dimissed on the grounds that I didn't watch Tex or whomever play. I didn't need to see Tex play to at least know Ryan Howard is an at least "good" defensive first basemen, now.

[Misfit]

Re: UZR: Thoughts?

Its my belief that UZR, like most stats, is best applied when looking at career numbers and not seasonal ones. The largest sample size should always be used when available. Its also probably true that UZR cannot accurately measure the defensive capabilities of a first baseman. Is Derek Jeter all of a sudden an 8.4 player? No, while I think its fair to say he improved his defense in 2009, he's still closer to the -4.6 career defender he has been versus the 8.4 player he allegedly became.

[Coug00]

Re: UZR: Thoughts?

Its my belief that UZR, like most stats, is best applied when looking at career numbers and not seasonal ones. The largest sample size should always be used when available. Its also probably true that UZR cannot accurately measure the defensive capabilities of a first baseman. Is Derek Jeter all of a sudden an 8.4 player? No, while I think its fair to say he improved his defense in 2009, he's still closer to the -4.6 career defender he has been versus the 8.4 player he allegedly became.

Great post. Agree completely. I saw a sample size comparison somewhere this past summer and it basically said 3 years of UZR data is the equivalent to one year of data at the plate.

The idea that the Howard thread was a dead argument is untrue. The thread was locked, and had no resolution.

Have you or Coug ever felt compelled to defend someone? Take the Elton Brand thread in the NBA forum as another example similar to this Ryan Howard thread. I got tired of posting in there on a nightly basis, I'll just update his numbers at the end of each month, to illustrate the OP was wrong.

So like that example, and this one here...where Howards fielding from first is recognized as 8th best in the league I feel compelled to argue his uh I guess 'status'. Especially since my personal view was dimissed on the grounds that I didn't watch Tex or whomever play. I didn't need to see Tex play to at least know Ryan Howard is an at least "good" defensive first basemen, now.

The problem is, until Ryan Howard significantly improves or declines, no one is going to change the other's mind. Until then, its just spinning tires in the mud.