Top 5 Pitchers of all time

[Chip Douglass]

Re: Top 5 Pitchers of all time

Maddux was great, but Pedro has the #1 season in the modern era in terms of ERA + and 5 in the top 35. Not to mention that Pedro was far more dominant than Maddux ever was. And again with WHIP, Pedro has the greatest season of all time and 4 in the top 60. Pedro's stretch of dominance, was far more dominant than Maddux.

I don't think I ever disputed that, but you seemed to ignore Maddux's own incredibly dominant stretch. He had a sub-2.00 ERA and .95 WHIP from 1992-1995. That's ridiculous. I'll again point out that it's obviously not as good as Pedro's, but Maddux provided both longevity and incredible peak performance. Pedro is lacking the former.

I simply can't buy a GOAT label for a pitcher with a 6 year window. Give me Maddux, Clemens, and Johnson over Pedro.

[DieHardYankee26]

Re: Top 5 Pitchers of all time

I don't think I ever disputed that, but you seemed to ignore Maddux's own incredibly dominant stretch. He had a sub-2.00 ERA and .95 WHIP from 1992-1995. That's ridiculous. I'll again point out that it's obviously not as good as Pedro's, but Maddux provided both longevity and incredible peak performance. Pedro is lacking the former.

I simply can't buy a GOAT label for a pitcher with a 6 year window. Give me Maddux, Clemens, and Johnson over Pedro.

I never said that Maddux's peak wasn't dominant and that he didn't have his own stretch, but it wasn't worth mentioning for the simple fact that his peak was irrelevant in this situation as Pedro's was far more dominant. But we agree on one thing: you can have Maddux. Because I'll take Pedro all the way to the bank. For me I like stats that show quality. Again, it doesn't impress me that Cy Young won 511 games and also has more losses than anyone. Pedro has less than 225 less strikeouts than Maddux in just under 2200 less innings. Stretching Pedro's stats over the same amount of innings as Maddux would be absolutely mind blowing. That obviously is an irrelevant point because he didn't accomplish those stats over the same time frame, but the point is that Maddux simply was not a better pitcher than Pedro, only one who pitched longer. So you can have Maddux, and I'll take the single most dominating pitcher in the history of the game.

[Alkalinesolo022]

Re: Top 5 Pitchers of all time

Hard to do all-time when I haven't seen any of them and the eras were so different, but top 5 that I've seen is:


1. Roger Clemens
2. Randy Johnson
3. Greg Maddux
4. Pedro Martinez
5. Johan Santana

[ZB9]

Re: Top 5 Pitchers of all time

that ive seen

1. Orel Hershisher
2. Roger Clemens
3. Nolan Ryan
4. Randy Johnson
5. Smoltz

[Chip Douglass]

Re: Top 5 Pitchers of all time

Yeah, I never even posted my list.

Among pitchers I've seen:

1. Clemens
2. Maddux
3. Johnson
4. Pedro
5. Santana

[55]

Re: Top 5 Pitchers of all time

It's the year 2010 and people still think wins are an important statistic in determining how good a starting pitcher is?

[Chip Douglass]

Re: Top 5 Pitchers of all time

That obviously is an irrelevant point because he didn't accomplish those stats over the same time frame, but the point is that Maddux simply was not a better pitcher than Pedro, only one who pitched longer. So you can have Maddux, and I'll take the single most dominating pitcher in the history of the game.

And I think you're missing the bigger picture. The fact that Maddux pitched so much longer than Pedro allowed him to rack up alot more value. So yes, the fact that he pitched longer than Pedro should be taken into consideration.

Pedro is a GOAT pitcher much like Kurt Warner is a GOAT QB. Warner dominates a ton of the QB context stats (YPG, completion %, rate of 300 yard passing games, etc.), like Pedro dominates pitching context stats.

[Ewing]

Re: Top 5 Pitchers of all time

Ewing was actually my source for that (http://www.operationsports.com/vBull...best-ever.html), but apparently it's incorrect. My double check also came short since I assumed hit batsmen were already tallied as walks.

I stand corrected.

At the time of that writing, Johnson had more strikeouts than baserunners in his career. However, the 2009 season caused that to change.

[RoyalKingz17]

Re: Top 5 Pitchers of all time

No Order.
Tom Seaver
Curt Schilling
Randy Johnson
Greg Maddux
Bob Gisbson


Greatest rotation ever. IMO.

[BatsareBugs]

Re: Top 5 Pitchers of all time

It's the year 2010 and people still think wins are an important statistic in determining how good a starting pitcher is?

Yep, and in 2020 people will still think ERA is an important statistic in determining how good a starting pitcher is, then in 2030, people will still think FIP is an important statistic in determining how good a starting pitcher is so on...

Or so it seems. All stats need to embraced , but using only one to make a point isn't... all that convincing.

[vernond]

Re: Top 5 Pitchers of all time

I'm only going to judge on what I've seen in my lifetime. I can't argue about guys I've only seen on videos or read about, I don't think it's fair to do that plus guys become greater than they ever really were with time.

1. Greg Maddux
2. Roger Clemens
3. Randy Johnson
4. Pedro Martinez
5. Tom Glavine