Players Who Deserve To Be In The Hall of Fame But will Never get In

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  • TheLetterZ
    All Star
    • Jul 2002
    • 6752

    #31
    Re: Players Who Deserve To Be In The Hall of Fame But will Never get In

    Gotta say no to Buhner, but Martinez is a no brainer for me.

    I know I don't have a lot of support on this one, but I'd put McGriff in. Of his 10 most similar players, nine of them are or will be in the Hall of Fame. People forget that he was one of the best players in baseball from 1989-1994. He wouldn't be one of the best players in the Hall, but I believe he merits induction.

    Moyer is such an interesting case. If he somehow gets close to 300 wins, I might put him in. There's never been anyone quite like him before.

    Comment

    • TheLetterZ
      All Star
      • Jul 2002
      • 6752

      #32
      Re: Players Who Deserve To Be In The Hall of Fame But will Never get In

      Originally posted by Olson-for-Heisman
      Considering McGwire had a career .394 OBP, I'd call him more than a HR hitter.

      The guy is one of the greatest sluggers in the history of baseball. If you want to make an argument that he shouldn't get in because of PEDs, fine, but there's no way he doesn't get in because of a lack of hitting ability.
      I could not agree more.

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      • Blzer
        Resident film pundit
        • Mar 2004
        • 42520

        #33
        Re: Players Who Deserve To Be In The Hall of Fame But will Never get In

        Originally posted by Olson-for-Heisman
        Considering McGwire had a career .394 OBP, I'd call him more than a HR hitter.

        The guy is one of the greatest sluggers in the history of baseball. If you want to make an argument that he shouldn't get in because of PEDs, fine, but there's no way he doesn't get in because of a lack of hitting ability.
        No no, I understand the case for McGwire there. What I was saying in my second post was that I forgot I completely disregarded posting about players on the defensive side of the ball, and McGwire didn't really have anything there to speak of.

        There are a lot of players that were good on offense and not so much on defense that are in the HOF though, so in some respects I can say I wouldn't mind him being in, but I may think twice about how I vote him.

        But if people want to put steroids into question and then go off defending players or what have you, then for Bonds I can always make the argument that he was a 400/400 guy before the debacle.
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        • Chip Douglass
          Hall Of Fame
          • Dec 2005
          • 12256

          #34
          Re: Players Who Deserve To Be In The Hall of Fame But will Never get In

          I was about to say the same thing about Sosa, but his career numbers weren't really as impressive as I thought they would be, especially the power numbers. He's not even top 40 in slugging % and he's in the Ryan Klesko/Keith Hernandez range in OPS+ at 128 (183rd all-time).

          Even ignoring PED concerns, I'm not so sure about him.
          Last edited by Chip Douglass; 07-04-2010, 04:35 PM.
          I write things on the Internet.

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          • Sportsforever
            NL MVP
            • Mar 2005
            • 20368

            #35
            Re: Players Who Deserve To Be In The Hall of Fame But will Never get In

            Originally posted by Olson-for-Heisman
            I was about to say the same thing about Sosa, but his career numbers weren't really as impressive as I thought they would be, especially the power numbers. He's not even top 40 in slugging % and he's in the Ryan Klesko/Keith Hernandez range in OPS+ at 128 (183rd all-time).

            Even ignoring PED concerns, I'm not so sure about him.
            That is surprising...I didn't even look at his numbers earlier, but I expected he'd do much better than that. Those aren't HOF numbers.
            "People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." - Rogers Hornsby

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            • SPTO
              binging
              • Feb 2003
              • 68046

              #36
              Re: Players Who Deserve To Be In The Hall of Fame But will Never get In

              McGwire= a more spectacular version of Dave Kingman.
              Member of the Official OS Bills Backers Club

              "Baseball is the most important thing that doesn't matter at all" - Robert B. Parker

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              • Chip Douglass
                Hall Of Fame
                • Dec 2005
                • 12256

                #37
                Re: Players Who Deserve To Be In The Hall of Fame But will Never get In

                Originally posted by Sportsforever
                That is surprising...I didn't even look at his numbers earlier, but I expected he'd do much better than that. Those aren't HOF numbers.
                Very surprising and pretty troublesome for a one-trick pony like Sosa.
                I write things on the Internet.

                Comment

                • Chip Douglass
                  Hall Of Fame
                  • Dec 2005
                  • 12256

                  #38
                  Re: Players Who Deserve To Be In The Hall of Fame But will Never get In

                  Originally posted by SPTO
                  McGwire= a more spectacular version of Dave Kingman.
                  McGwire: .263/.394/.588, OPS+: 162
                  Kingman: .235/.302/.478, OPS+: 115

                  Can we stop talking about McGwire as if he were some offensive scrub? The guy has a higher career OPS+ than Hank Aaron, Joe DiMaggio, and Willie Mays. He had a slugging % over .700 three times in his career. He had 6 consecutive seasons of 1.050+ OPS. Among players with 540 HRs or more, he's 3rd in OBP, 3rd in slugging, and third in OPS+...behind Ruth and Bonds.

                  If you're going to keep him out, do so because of his PED use, not because he wasn't one of the game's greatest hitters.
                  Last edited by Chip Douglass; 07-04-2010, 05:08 PM.
                  I write things on the Internet.

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                  • snepp
                    We'll waste him too.
                    • Apr 2003
                    • 10007

                    #39
                    Re: Players Who Deserve To Be In The Hall of Fame But will Never get In

                    McGwire could draw more walks in a single season than Kingman would in half a decade.
                    Member of The OS Baseball Rocket Scientists Association

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                    • Chip Douglass
                      Hall Of Fame
                      • Dec 2005
                      • 12256

                      #40
                      Re: Players Who Deserve To Be In The Hall of Fame But will Never get In

                      Originally posted by TheLetterZ
                      Gotta say no to Buhner, but Martinez is a no brainer for me.

                      I know I don't have a lot of support on this one, but I'd put McGriff in. Of his 10 most similar players, nine of them are or will be in the Hall of Fame. People forget that he was one of the best players in baseball from 1989-1994. He wouldn't be one of the best players in the Hall, but I believe he merits induction.

                      Moyer is such an interesting case. If he somehow gets close to 300 wins, I might put him in. There's never been anyone quite like him before.
                      What's interesting about McGriff is that if he hit 7 more HRs, he'd be a lock for the HOF.

                      He might not ever get in though.
                      I write things on the Internet.

                      Comment

                      • snepp
                        We'll waste him too.
                        • Apr 2003
                        • 10007

                        #41
                        Re: Players Who Deserve To Be In The Hall of Fame But will Never get In

                        Originally posted by Olson-for-Heisman
                        What's interesting about McGriff is that if he hit 7 more HRs, he'd be a lock for the HOF.

                        Unfortunately there's way too much emphasis put on what should be meaningless milestones.
                        Member of The OS Baseball Rocket Scientists Association

                        Comment

                        • Blzer
                          Resident film pundit
                          • Mar 2004
                          • 42520

                          #42
                          Re: Players Who Deserve To Be In The Hall of Fame But will Never get In

                          Originally posted by snepp
                          Unfortunately there's way too much emphasis put on what should be meaningless milestones.
                          In some respects I understand, like in the case that you say: "The difference between 499 home runs and 500 home runs is one home run." If players had identical numbers with that one number being the difference, and the player with 500 home runs got into the Hall of Fame and the other didn't, hell would be raised.

                          There still is something to be said about milestones when considering what should be appreciable benchmarks when considering players, though. Like I said about Bonds, he is a 700/500 guy, but in reality it's actually 762/514. I am actually discrediting his career performance by speaking about his milestones, but sometimes that's just easier for people to see. And unfortunately, what they see is that Fred McGriff does not have 500 home runs.

                          When it comes down to it, the numbers do matter very much down to the least significant digit. But I do think something can be said of a career .300 hitter versus a career .290 hitter.
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                          • snepp
                            We'll waste him too.
                            • Apr 2003
                            • 10007

                            #43
                            Re: Players Who Deserve To Be In The Hall of Fame But will Never get In

                            Originally posted by Blzer
                            When it comes down to it, the numbers do matter very much down to the least significant digit. But I do think something can be said of a career .300 hitter versus a career .290 hitter.

                            And when that .300 average is accompanied by a .350 OBP, while the .290 hitter brings a .390 OBP, that milestone is rendered meaningless yet again.
                            Member of The OS Baseball Rocket Scientists Association

                            Comment

                            • Blzer
                              Resident film pundit
                              • Mar 2004
                              • 42520

                              #44
                              Re: Players Who Deserve To Be In The Hall of Fame But will Never get In

                              Originally posted by snepp
                              And when that .300 average is accompanied by a .350 OBP, while the .290 hitter brings a .390 OBP, that milestone is rendered meaningless yet again.
                              A point which no person with an educated background in baseball should argue. This is the case for Dunn versus Sosa, only that their batting averages are much lower and Dunn isn't anywhere near an argument for contention in this thread... not now, not in fifteen years.

                              But something should still be said about someone who can successfully hit their way on base, so we can't completely rule out the number either. I'm sure Ty Cobb would appreciate that he utilized his wood more successfully than Bonds, even though Bonds has the higher OBP.
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                              • TheMatrix31
                                RF
                                • Jul 2002
                                • 52920

                                #45
                                Re: Players Who Deserve To Be In The Hall of Fame But will Never get In

                                But what about his .749 WATS rating?

                                /sarcasm

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