The Decline Of MLB

[Vince]

Re: The Decline Of MLB

Vancity, no **** you're gonna lose interest in Baseball.

We are both Jays fans who might not ever see post-season play for the next decade.

Baseball has been replaced by soccer as my top 4 sports a while ago.

I think I've watched like 2 full games this season.

[Money99]

Re: The Decline Of MLB

I have a very controversial take on this and I'm sure some here will hate me for saying this.
But I think one of the reasons that baseball is no longer #1 is because of the increase in foreign athletes.

Back in the day it was all American's (mostly).

I'm not saying this because I have a grudge or personal dislike for foreign ball players. Not in the least.
But ratings decline because fans of the casual nature start to lose interest. And most casual fans want to connect with players that have something in common with them.

The same thing is happening with boxing (which used to be the #2 sport in the US, and even hockey in some circles).

Fans want to relate to the athletes they pay to watch.

There's a reason why a .250 hitting Brandon Inge is one of the most popular players on the Tigers.

EDIT: other great reasons were already added; slow pace, you can pencil in the playoff teams in March and be 90% accurate, lack of modern technology (instant replay), etc.

[Money99]

Re: The Decline Of MLB

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/379873...orts-baseball/

Gary Bettman says the same thing about the NHL. "Ratings have never been higher, attendance records are broken every year, all 30 teams are healthy".

Meanwhile, the ratings are basically the same as they were 20 years ago. Attendance has gone up some, but most of that is inflated totals because it only takes into account of how many tickets were spoken for.

And depending on who you want to believe there's anywhere between 6-10 teams that are near bankrupt.

[mgoblue678]

Re: The Decline Of MLB

I have a very controversial take on this and I'm sure some here will hate me for saying this.
But I think one of the reasons that baseball is no longer #1 is because of the increase in foreign athletes.

Back in the day it was all American's (mostly).

I'm not saying this because I have a grudge or personal dislike for foreign ball players. Not in the least.
But ratings decline because fans of the casual nature start to lose interest. And most casual fans want to connect with players that have something in common with them.

The same thing is happening with boxing (which used to be the #2 sport in the US, and even hockey in some circles).

Fans want to relate to the athletes they pay to watch.

There's a reason why a .250 hitting Brandon Inge is one of the most popular players on the Tigers.

EDIT: other great reasons were already added; slow pace, you can pencil in the playoff teams in March and be 90% accurate, lack of modern technology (instant replay), etc.

Not sure what your basing this on, but I completely disagree. I could care less that a good number of Tigers are not from the US and I am sure a lot of fans of other teams feel the same way. Do you really think Tiger fans would not pay to see a guy like Miguel Cabrera play because he isn't from the US?

Brandon Inge's popularity among Tiger fans has nothing to do with him being from the US, it is because he plays hard game in and game out, has played injured and also was a Tiger who had to suffer through some terrible years before things turned around. I also guarantee you that based on the year Miguel Cabrera is having he is by far more popular than Inge right now regardless of where the two guys are from.

I don't hate you for saying it, but I still have no idea what you are basing it on.

[Money99]

Re: The Decline Of MLB

Not sure what your basing this on, but I completely disagree. I could care less that a good number of Tigers are not from the US and I am sure a lot of fans of other teams feel the same way. Do you really think Tiger fans would not pay to see a guy like Miguel Cabrera play because he isn't from the US?

Brandon Inge's popularity among Tiger fans has nothing to do with him being from the US, it is because he plays hard game in and game out, has played injured and also was a Tiger who had to suffer through some terrible years before things turned around. I also guarantee you that based on the year Miguel Cabrera is having is by far more popular than Inge right now regardless of where the two guys are from.

I don't hate you for saying it, but I still have no idea what you are basing it on.

I'm just basing it off of things I've heard from casual sports fans around Detroit.
I'm a fan of the Tigers, Wings, boxing, etc. so I can cheer for anyone. That's why the TV ratings will remain with a steady core of fans like myself who will watch no matter what.

But sitting in the Joe or CoPa, as well as my office building in Detroit, I can't tell you how many times I've heard some 'fans' talk about how they wish there were more US-raised players on their teams.

The Wings had a heck of a time selling tickets once guys like McCarty, Shanahan and Yzerman left the fold.
They were selling $9 tickets and I got a return call the same day when I inquired about season's tickets. That has never happened in the 25+ years I've been a Wings fan.

Also, when the Tigers traded for Cabrera, there was a lot of ink spilled over how Inge wanted to be traded because he wanted to be an every-day player and at a position other than catch.
Inge even made a comment during spring training about how the Tigers just traded for one of the best young players in baseball and yet all they wanted to talk about was him.
Inge is popular for all the reasons you mentioned. But I wonder how much publicity he would have gotten if he was born in a different country. Nobody seemed to give a crap about Polonco leaving. Barely anything was written about that and he was, and still is, a better player than Inge.

[Moojenowski]

Re: The Decline Of MLB

Nobody seemed to give a crap about Polonco leaving. Barely anything was written about that and he was, and still is, a better player than Inge.

Nobody cared about that because, at the time, you had a top MLB ready prospect in Scott Sizemore ready to break through...

As far as comparing him to Inge, it's apples to oranges... Inge never hits for average with a good amount of pop, Polanco is strictly hits for average and has a solid OBP with little power.

[Misfit]

Re: The Decline Of MLB

Not sure what your basing this on, but I completely disagree. I could care less that a good number of Tigers are not from the US and I am sure a lot of fans of other teams feel the same way. Do you really think Tiger fans would not pay to see a guy like Miguel Cabrera play because he isn't from the US?

Brandon Inge's popularity among Tiger fans has nothing to do with him being from the US, it is because he plays hard game in and game out, has played injured and also was a Tiger who had to suffer through some terrible years before things turned around. I also guarantee you that based on the year Miguel Cabrera is having he is by far more popular than Inge right now regardless of where the two guys are from.

I don't hate you for saying it, but I still have no idea what you are basing it on.

What Money99 is theorizing is cited almost annually when the report on diversity in baseball is released. It is most prominently mentioned in regards to the declining percentage of African Americans in the game and how some feel that is contributing to disinterest on the part of the African American community when it comes to Major League Baseball. Is it that much of a stretch to think this could apply to Americans as a whole?

It's just a theory, nothing more. There could be some truth to it or it could be completely wrong. And it's not something you can poll, as likely few people would admit to declining interest in baseball due to a decrease in American players for fear of sounding racist.

I personally am open to the possibility, but I think it's way down the list of reasons why the American public is becoming indifferent to MLB. Number one is likely and will always be the economic climate. Unemployment and uncertainty in the market is going up while ticket prices are rising as well. People are also going to be more hostile towards wealthy athletes when they're sufferring financially, I hear people call in constantly about such things on talk radio. And I think it would be naive to assume the steroid controversey has had no impact on the game's popularity. For some people it's a big deal and there's still people out there who think the game hasn't been cleaned up. It will take time for the public to move on.

[WazzuRC]

Re: The Decline Of MLB

I have a very controversial take on this and I'm sure some here will hate me for saying this.
But I think one of the reasons that baseball is no longer #1 is because of the increase in foreign athletes.

Back in the day it was all American's (mostly).

I'm not saying this because I have a grudge or personal dislike for foreign ball players. Not in the least.
But ratings decline because fans of the casual nature start to lose interest. And most casual fans want to connect with players that have something in common with them.

The same thing is happening with boxing (which used to be the #2 sport in the US, and even hockey in some circles).

Fans want to relate to the athletes they pay to watch.

There's a reason why a .250 hitting Brandon Inge is one of the most popular players on the Tigers.

EDIT: other great reasons were already added; slow pace, you can pencil in the playoff teams in March and be 90% accurate, lack of modern technology (instant replay), etc.

I don't want to get into any racial topics, so I'll tip toe as lightly as I can:

I agree to some extent, but have a different take on it. Baseball (and I could argue sports in general) change with existing immigration into the United States. Look at baseball's early years up through the 1950's. Dominated by European Americans, sons of immigrants who came into the US during the late 1800's and into the early 1900's. From 1960's through the 1980's, there seemed to be a big latin explosion with baseball as we saw many more Latin ballplayers, descendants from an increasing Latin immigration into the United States. Now, you see many more Asians in baseball than before because of an influx in Asian immigration. It all correlates.

In a way, I can see where you're coming from, but baseball has always been a global game so I wouldn't necessarily say that most baseball player's back in the day were Americans.

[Alex the Great]

Re: The Decline Of MLB

What Money99 is theorizing is cited almost annually when the report on diversity in baseball is released. It is most prominently mentioned in regards to the declining percentage of African Americans in the game and how some feel that is contributing to disinterest on the part of the African American community when it comes to Major League Baseball. Is it that much of a stretch to think this could apply to Americans as a whole?

It's just a theory, nothing more. There could be some truth to it or it could be completely wrong. And it's not something you can poll, as likely few people would admit to declining interest in baseball due to a decrease in American players for fear of sounding racist.

I personally am open to the possibility, but I think it's way down the list of reasons why the American public is becoming indifferent to MLB. Number one is likely and will always be the economic climate. Unemployment and uncertainty in the market is going up while ticket prices are rising as well. People are also going to be more hostile towards wealthy athletes when they're sufferring financially, I hear people call in constantly about such things on talk radio. And I think it would be naive to assume the steroid controversey has had no impact on the game's popularity. For some people it's a big deal and there's still people out there who think the game hasn't been cleaned up. It will take time for the public to move on.

I did a report on racial diversity in sports for school and the main reason for the decrease of African-American participation in baseball is because of the lack of space for baseball fields in urban areas. For the amount of room it would take to build one baseball field, there could be four to six blacktop basketball courts built. Not that there is even enough space to build that much, which is why they will build just one blacktop court. And let's face it, urban areas have a high population of African-Americans.

[Speedy]

Re: The Decline Of MLB

<S> Sabremetrics have</S> Selig has absolutely destroyed baseball.

[VanCitySportsGuy]

Re: The Decline Of MLB

Who needs youtube when you can catch videos on mlb.com and espn.com.

Actually youtube is a better option than pretty much anything else when it comes to sports. Let's say I want to find highlights of Barry Bonds, I could just type his name on youtube and it would give me videos. It's much harder to do this on mlb.com and espn.com

MLB is the only sports league in North America that doesn't allow videos on youtube and I think they're making a pretty big mistake. MLB in general is pretty much against anything that would be considered young and hip.

[VanCitySportsGuy]

Re: The Decline Of MLB

Vancity, no **** you're gonna lose interest in Baseball.

We are both Jays fans who might not ever see post-season play for the next decade.

Baseball has been replaced by soccer as my top 4 sports a while ago.

I think I've watched like 2 full games this season.

I would say my interest is still pretty strong. I've watched every Jays game this season (I usually DVR it though so I can ff all the "dead spots") and I follow the minor leagues.

I just scratch my head at some of the decisions baseball makes.

[JBH3]

Re: The Decline Of MLB

If you clicked on this thread, you’re probably a baseball fan like I am. I can’t help but feel interest in baseball is declining.

The ratings for the weekend games on Fox aren’t that good, attendance is down, and baseball topics rarely trend on twitter. Baseball in general isn’t a very “hip “ sport. MLB does basically nothing to promote its own players and for some stupid reason, they don’t allow videos on YouTube. We have issues like how Selig (and the players) don’t want to expand the use of replay. We live in an instant gratification kind of society and baseball goes completely against this. Certain games can take a long time to complete. And the big elephant in the room is the broken economic system of baseball. Unless you’re a diehard fan why would you pay money to watch the Jays, Pirates, O’s, Royals, etc… Teams in baseball are often eliminated from the playoff race well before the final 2 months of the season.

So Twitter and YouTube dictate popularity of a sport?

The Nets, Sixers, Wizards, Pistons, Warriors, Clippers, Kings, T'Wolves, Redskins, Lions, Bucs, Rams, Seahawks, Bills, Browns, and Chiefs were not eliminated will in advance of the season ending? That same trend, albeit maybe different teams replacing some, will continue unfeathered. Doesn't mean that a sport is declining.

I for one have no problem w/ the no salary cap way of baseball; until the Yankees beat my Phillies in the World Series again

If a team hypothetically buys the best talent, and finds themselves in position to win a championship but are beaten that just makes the defeat that much more rewarding; either as a fan of that team, or an avid watcher of baseball.

[VanCitySportsGuy]

Re: The Decline Of MLB

So Twitter and YouTube dictate popularity of a sport?

The Nets, Sixers, Wizards, Pistons, Warriors, Clippers, Kings, T'Wolves, Redskins, Lions, Bucs, Rams, Seahawks, Bills, Browns, and Chiefs were not eliminated will in advance of the season ending? That same trend, albeit maybe different teams replacing some, will continue unfeathered. Doesn't mean that a sport is declining.

Youtube and Twitter doesn't dictate the popularity of a sport but it's one measure to gauge how much interest/buzz there is among the younger crowd.

I want to make one thing clear, I'm not a fan of hard salary caps. Baseball isn't the only sport to have teams eliminated from the playoff chase well before the end of the regular season but it's the only sport where you can have such a wide disparity in payroll (i.e. comparing the Yanks payroll to the Marlins).

[Money99]

Re: The Decline Of MLB

I don't want to get into any racial topics, so I'll tip toe as lightly as I can:

I agree to some extent, but have a different take on it. Baseball (and I could argue sports in general) change with existing immigration into the United States. Look at baseball's early years up through the 1950's. Dominated by European Americans, sons of immigrants who came into the US during the late 1800's and into the early 1900's. From 1960's through the 1980's, there seemed to be a big latin explosion with baseball as we saw many more Latin ballplayers, descendants from an increasing Latin immigration into the United States. Now, you see many more Asians in baseball than before because of an influx in Asian immigration. It all correlates.

In a way, I can see where you're coming from, but baseball has always been a global game so I wouldn't necessarily say that most baseball player's back in the day were Americans.

Excellent points WazzuRC.
The only counter-point I can make to that is that by-and-large, the majority of consumers who buy into MLB are Caucasian American's.

When I watch the Tigers, it's mostly a white crowd despite being in the heart of Detroit.

Looking back at what I've said, I agree though that my argument might be a very small portion for the reason for low ratings and attendance.

Many members here have already pointed out the main reasons:

1. Steroids.
2. Slow pace of game.
3. Lack of playoff drama. Everyone pretty much knows who's playing beyond 162 games.

The problem with #3 is, ratings are always much better when prime cities like NY, Boston, Philly, LA are in the playoff dance.
I don't see that ever changing. It'd be nice if they modified the luxery tax so that all that money goes to the teams in your own division.
The Yankees might think twice about spending so much if that $40M goes to the Blue Jays and Orioles.