The Decline Of MLB

[SPTO]

Re: The Decline Of MLB

Weekend ratings are not good because all other games are on TV. You used to only get 1-2 games a week nationally.

Funny you should mention this because I read somewhere just a 15 minutes ago that even back in the day (1976) ABC had started their MNB schedule at 16 games per summer but ratings weren't so hot. By the end of the contract (1986) they had dropped to 8 games and this was LOONG before the proliferation of local broadcasts and games being on everywhere thanks to ESPN and MLB:EI.

Baseball for some reason is not a great regular season ratings gainer unless there's a big hook to it.

[devilsjaw]

Re: The Decline Of MLB

I think that, in general, people's attention span is shorter these days. They don't care to pay attention to the entire baseball season, they just want to watch the playoffs.

I don't think it's a coincidence that the most popular sport in America is the one with the shortest season and most simplistic playoff approach.

[NYJets]

Re: The Decline Of MLB

With Sabermetrics, if you don't like them you don't have to use them. They are very easy to avoid, very few members of the media ever reference them. You aren't going to hear Joe Buck talk about vorp unless its to make fun of it.

They are a great tool for teams, and making more teams well run is good for the league. Now, maybe they have made it tougher to post on baseball message boards if you don't learn about them. But I think that's a small part of being a baseball fan.

[DaveDQ]

Re: The Decline Of MLB

Unless you’re a diehard fan why would you pay money to watch the Jays, Pirates, O’s, Royals, etc… Teams in baseball are often eliminated from the playoff race well before the final 2 months of the season.

Because it's your team. That probably sounds lame and sentimental, but since the Red Sox won the World Series in 2004, I get people telling me it's easy to be a fan because they are always competing. It's like they completely overlook everything before 2004. I actually grew up watching my grandfather sit through some painful moments and then I subscribed to the same "cursed" team. Then when they finally won, I see people who probably can't name 5 starters wearing "Reverse the Curse" shirts going on and on about how great it was to see them win. It got to be where I didn't wear anything Red Sox because people would gush and it made me uncomfortable.

I watch the Orioles a lot because they play Boston. I really thought this year would be far better for them. I'm sure for a fan of Baltimore it can be frustrating, especially in such a strong division. But, when they have a winning season, it's going to be a very positive/sweet experience for the fan. That's how it goes.

Baseball is beautiful to me. I got to see McDonald fill in for Elsbury and hit an HR and then a walk off double. And then see the team go nuts over him. There is so much that happens that squashes the steroid stupidity. The problem is people love sensationalism and ESPN loves to exploit. Baseball is fine to me. I still think it's America's past-time. I just happen to think the people who get bored with it want to see it fail and don't want it to be our past-time any longer.

[mkharsh33]

Re: The Decline Of MLB

i'll chime in... i love baseball, but i believe the sport is dying a slow death...

- economics: the system is broken...unfair...call it whatever you want, but until some form of a "salary cap" is instituted, the game will suffer. this doesn't mean guaranteed success for certain teams, but it's obvious the pirates could never compete with the yankees just on salary scales alone. but i once heard someone say, "spending money doesn't guarantee success...but the only way to be successful is to spend money."

- pace of the game: face it, we live in a fast-paced world. the game of baseball is too slow. guys still putter around and the pace really needs to pick up. even watching the HR Derby the other night - David Ortiz had to stop, towel off and get something to drink. it was all i could do to not change the channel.

- i'll stop with this one (though i could go on): the crackdown on substances: ped's / steroids, etc. for example, i'm an indians fan. i'll bet my left nut that travis hafner was juicing. the man no longer has any power and can't stay healthy. he's now a 40+ million dollar doubles hitter who will be lucky to hit 15 HR's this year. these guys were cheating and the proof is that pitching is now more successful than the hitting. it's not that the pitchers are getting any better, because many of them don't deserve to be in the majors.

this is an interesting thread that i just stumbled across today. good thoughts here...

[phenom1990]

Re: The Decline Of MLB

This to me is the big reason why MLB doesn't usually get good regular season ratings. Take for example the NBA, NFL and NHL, if a fan wants to watch the best players in that sport. They will probably watch most of that game to watch the Lebron, Manning, Crosby, etc because those guys are playing a lot of the time. Even if their supporting cast is bad, you are still watching the supporting cast play with those guys.

Now let's look at baseball, the only thing comparable is a starting pitcher. How many pitchers outside of a casual fan favorite team, do they feel the need to watch? Probably not that many and even then it needs to be timed so that one of those pitchers is pitching on a Saturday Fox game.

Now let's look at hitters like Pujols, etc. Usually your not watching a game just to see a ball get to hit to him ( defense/fielding), you are watching to see them hit. How many times do they hit in a game? 4. How long do those at bats last? Not very long. So people might tune in to see a Pujols at bat and tune back out once it is done. A casual fan doesn't feel the need to watch Brendan Ryan ( no disrespect) and that makes it different from other sports.

To watch Lebron, Manning, etc you have to watch them with their supporting cast and they dominate more of the game in terms of time playing. To watch Pujols, you don't need to watch Brendan Ryan and therefore watching Pujols requires less time. I don't know if that actually affects ratings but I think it does.

[Lintyfresh85]

Re: The Decline Of MLB

- pace of the game: face it, we live in a fast-paced world. the game of baseball is too slow. guys still putter around and the pace really needs to pick up. even watching the HR Derby the other night - David Ortiz had to stop, towel off and get something to drink. it was all i could do to not change the channel.

Football games take longer to finish than the average baseball game.

[DaveDQ]

Re: The Decline Of MLB

- pace of the game: face it, we live in a fast-paced world. the game of baseball is too slow. guys still putter around and the pace really needs to pick up.

Carl Crawford

[jkra0512]

Re: The Decline Of MLB

It's funny when I meet someone new and we if ever get on the topic of sports, I always ask, "What's your favorite sport?" I think 80% of the time I get basketball or football. When they ask me that same question and I respond, "baseball," I get, "Really!?!"

Just that response alone shows how many casual fans have left our game. We could view this in different ways, "They weren't real fans anyway," or "baseball doesn't have the drama that other sports do, so why bother?" Baseball has its drama, it's just strewn out over 162 games, so it develops much slower than a 17-week season or 82-game season.

Introducing this game to someone and hoping it sticks is very difficult compared to basketball or football. Sure, each game has its nuances but we applaud hitters who hit .280 or higher, because they are "above average hitters" How do you teach a kid that? "Hey it's ok when the world is watching you to only be successful, oh say, 28 percent of the time." lol

The problem most people have with baseball is variables, there's just too many for them to feel like they know what could happen. There is no clear-cut way to win year after year, no blueprint like in the other major sports leagues. You can have the best talent in the league like the Yankees (just because everyone likes to pick on them, I'll use them here) and still not win a World Series. This theory goes along with the, "we are a fast-paced society and baseball isn't fast-paced" argument. I 100% agree with that.

Sidenote, I want everyone to remember the 2008 season when the Yanks didn't make the playoffs and the Rays went to the WS!!!

I do believe some people take sabermetrics WAY TOO FAR and to a degree has taken the fun out of baseball. But, I guess I just enjoy the guesswork that goes into evaluating players and rely on my eyes more than numbers. (I was never good at math anyway ) To me, it's nice for scouts and coaches to look at but for the casual- to mid- fan it's just too much to get into. It's like you dumped fantasy baseball into my real-life baseball and then call me dumb for not seeing that Joba's BABIP means he's been an all or nothing pitcher this year, I didn't need numbers to tell me that.

I have nothing against people who use sabermetrics, I just have a problem with people who shove it in my face and tell me how stupid I am for not knowing what they mean or how they're used.

Finally, I'm afraid baseball might become a niche sport one day while MMA, Nascar, or some other aggressive "show me what you got RIGHT NOW" sport takes its place among the major four sports.

[SPTO]

Re: The Decline Of MLB

- i'll stop with this one (though i could go on): the crackdown on substances: ped's / steroids, etc. for example, i'm an indians fan. i'll bet my left nut that travis hafner was juicing. the man no longer has any power and can't stay healthy. he's now a 40+ million dollar doubles hitter who will be lucky to hit 15 HR's this year. these guys were cheating and the proof is that pitching is now more successful than the hitting. it's not that the pitchers are getting any better, because many of them don't deserve to be in the majors.

Hmm, seems to me the numbers were still pretty good for hitters last year so you can't TOTALLY rely on the "no PEDs, no power" argument. What, did the guys all of a sudden say "uh oh we better stop hitting for power or else we'll be labeled cheaters!" Even if your argument is true you can't blame MLB for something they should've done 15 years ago. The only reason why MLB turned a blind eye to all this is that they NEEDED something to bring the fans back so they allowed it to happen. TPTB were implicit in allowing PEDs to become as rampant as it did and now everyone thinks 40+ HR seasons with 20-40 doubles are the norm when it's really not. The baseball being played today is more akin to what baseball was like in the '80s and early '90s minus the running game. If people can't handle that then tough luck.

Football games take longer to finish than the average baseball game.

Eh, I think it's more a question of pacing. Baseball's pace can be rather turgid especially in longer games. The difference in time between the two sports is not that significant as an average baseball game is about 2 1/2 hrs whereas an average football game lasts about 2 1/2 to 2 hrs 45 minutes. The pacing of football is also a lot better in that there's usually action or something interesting going on in any given play.

[Sportsforever]

Re: The Decline Of MLB

Hmm, seems to me the numbers were still pretty good for hitters last year so you can't TOTALLY rely on the "no PEDs, no power" argument. What, did the guys all of a sudden say "uh oh we better stop hitting for power or else we'll be labeled cheaters!" Even if your argument is true you can't blame MLB for something they should've done 15 years ago. The only reason why MLB turned a blind eye to all this is that they NEEDED something to bring the fans back so they allowed it to happen. TPTB were implicit in allowing PEDs to become as rampant as it did and now everyone thinks 40+ HR seasons with 20-40 doubles are the norm when it's really not. The baseball being played today is more akin to what baseball was like in the '80s and early '90s minus the running game. If people can't handle that then tough luck.



Eh, I think it's more a question of pacing. Baseball's pace can be rather turgid especially in longer games. The difference in time between the two sports is not that significant as an average baseball game is about 2 1/2 hrs whereas an average football game lasts about 2 1/2 to 2 hrs 45 minutes. The pacing of football is also a lot better in that there's usually action or something interesting going on in any given play.

Where did that info come from? Everything I see says an average NFL game is 3.5 hours.

[Sportsforever]

Re: The Decline Of MLB

"The great trouble with baseball today is that most of the players are in the game for the money and that's it, not for the love of it, the excitement of it, the thrill of it." Ty Cobb - 1925

"The difference between the old ballplayer and the new ballplayer is the jersey. The old ballplayer cared about the name on the front. The new ballplayer cares about the name on the back." Steve Garvey - 1970's

"Baseball is like church. Many attend few understand." Leo Durocher - 1950's

These quotes are from several different "golden" eras of baseball. Every generation has thought baseball "isn't as good as it used to be" and was on it's way out. Today baseball is as strong as it ever has been. Since I was a kid I've heard how no one wants to play baseball and that there will be a shortage of talent. I look around today and am blown away at the young, talented players playing this game. People predicting the decline/death of baseball are wrong.

[SPTO]

Re: The Decline Of MLB

Where did that info come from? Everything I see says an average NFL game is 3.5 hours.

ARGH poor math! I was thinking too quickly. You're right it's 3.5 hrs.

[DaveDQ]

Re: The Decline Of MLB

"The great trouble with baseball today is that most of the players are in the game for the money and that's it, not for the love of it, the excitement of it, the thrill of it." Ty Cobb - 1925

"The difference between the old ballplayer and the new ballplayer is the jersey. The old ballplayer cared about the name on the front. The new ballplayer cares about the name on the back." Steve Garvey - 1970's

"Baseball is like church. Many attend few understand." Leo Durocher - 1950's

These quotes are from several different "golden" eras of baseball. Every generation has thought baseball "isn't as good as it used to be" and was on it's way out. Today baseball is as strong as it ever has been. Since I was a kid I've heard how no one wants to play baseball and that there will be a shortage of talent. I look around today and am blown away at the young, talented players playing this game. People predicting the decline/death of baseball are wrong.

Great point.

[mkharsh33]

Re: The Decline Of MLB

But our culture is different than it was during those various "golden eras" of time. They didn't have video games, cell phones, microwaves, internet - it's a different mentality today. Also, I believe this All-Star game was the lowest rated one in years (correct me if I'm wrong - but I believe I heard a 17% DECREASE in viewership from last year?).

If baseball could get every pitch to move at the pace of a Mark Buehrle, we'd all be better off. I think the pitcher should set the pace and if the batter complains, too bad.

It is strange that I LOVE watching a 3.5 hour football game, but I start getting annoyed at a 3.5 hour baseball game. Pacing is everything...

And regarding the substances... Personally, I'd just let them all juice. I'd rather see a league of 50+ HR hitters than a league of 35 HR hitters (as league leaders). But the game had better wake up to the culture of TODAY, not the culture of the pre-1980's...