Re: I am starting to get embarrassed to be a Cards fan this year..
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BigRed said:
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pol said:
yan is coming around.. i think he can be a solid part of this bullpen.. after a horrid start he dropped his era significantly altho the last week or two he hasnt pitched very well. i dont understand tony's moves.. especially the other night against pitt when he brought in borbon in the ninth to keep it tied.. wouldnt most managers bring in their closer to give their o another chance?
the biggest problem with this team is where they have spent their money..
7mil+ for tino's production..
they arent getting the production from matt morris that he is worth.
IMO woody is somewhat overpaid as well.. same with scott rolen. they are getting NO production from the 4-5 million that vina is getting paid.. and to think we could have got russ ortiz for him in the off season. drew has been hurt.. and stupid freakin jim edmonds hurts himself in the home run derby... he decides to gut it out for the all star game.. but afterward takes 2 weeks off when it matters.
tomko is making 3mil altho he has pitched better.. they also wasted money signing joey hamilton and al levine who they cut before the season started.. luckilly we have dan haren, bo hart, and albert pujols at cheap or who knows how far out of first we would be.
owners who dont want to spend big bucks and a somewhat depleted farm system(at least in triple a) and their is no big deadline move to spark this team.
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First off, should Tony have put in Izzy in the 9th to push the game into extras? Absolutely Not.
If you're at home, you make this move. Not on the road. You save your closer for closing. That's his job. I mean, come on, if he had put in Izzy and went to the 10th, then the Cards take a lead while having to pinch hit for the pitcher. They then bring in whoever to close the game in the bottom half and he blows it...well, people'd be all over Tony for using the closer too early.
Secondly, the team tried to get Giambi. He went to the Yankees (don't blame him). McGwire retired. And Pujols was a minor league third baseman.
They went out and got Tino, but he hasn't performed at an extrememely high level. But, compared to whom? Bagwell? Lee? McGriff? Thome? Casey? Vaughn? Actually, he's been fairly comparable to the other first basemen in the league, but you're right, he could do us a little better.
Third, Matt Morris has been worn out by the bullpen. Period.
Fourth. Woody Williams makes $4.464 million, is 14-6 and was an all-star. He's not overpaid.
Fifth. Scott Rolen is the best all-around third baseman and best defensive third baseman in the majors. Bottom line. And you'll love his contract when the Cardinals have the third base position filled with this guy for the next 7 years.
Sixth. Yes Vina is overpaid. And I've never tried to hide my desire to permanently remove him from the team. But, he was fantastic a couple of years ago and has been hurt almost all this year. Hence, the team not trading him at the deadline.
And if you really think the Cards had a Vina for Ortiz straight up deal, I would have to question it. I really don't think San Fran was THAT desperate for a second baseman. And don't quote anybody except for either one of the GMs. Speculation and blowing things out of proportion is what some newspaper reporters do best.
Seventh. Drew has been a flop. Major flop. But would you have traded him straight up for Kevin Jarvis? Cory Lidle? John Thomson? I sure wouldn't. Hey, him not being traded was because we couldn't get equal value.
Eighth. Jim Edmonds injury was unfortunate. But things happen. However, Jim Edmonds' toughness should never come into question. He has played on an average of 150 games a season since coming to the Cardinals. Remember, he was considered injury prone, a bad teammate and a locker room cancer in Anaheim? Well, he's proven himself to be the absolute opposite with the Cardinals. Ultimate Leader.
Ninth. Tomko is a headcase and will be gone next year.
Tenth. Management took the cheap route in putting together the bullpen this year. AND they gave up on Al Levine WAYYYY too early. But, these things happen. You can't always be right and you can't always predict the future.
Bottom Line. The team is not that bad. And next year, issues will be addressed. However, the season is not over and they're right there. Don't jump ship. And be thankful you root for a team that year in and year out has management and ownership that tries to put the best team on the field. Doesn't always happen, but they put forth an tremendous effort.
It's a lot better then rooting for some other teams I can think of.
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i thought woody was more near 7-9 mil.. is it 4mil this year with tons deferred? i didnt think woody was worth the gamble in the off-season..except for the fact he could have ended up in houston. obviously he put up a tremendous first half.. but he hasnt done anything since the break. rolen may be the best 3rd basemen in the league.. but that doesnt mean he is worth 9million a year. especially to a team like the cardinals who cant spend 100+ mil. and this team isnt that good.. their struggling to stay in first in the worst division in baseball with the highest payroll in the division.
im happy as a cardinal fan. i just dont think they are a good enuf team to win this poor division right now with a super-streaky offense and no pitching.
thanks for clearing up the closer thing..
all walt has done to this team tho is bring in expensive players in trades and thats why they are so strapped for cash now.. how is jim edmonds the ultimate leader?
their are bright spots tho.. sposedly we have a large amount of good young pitching prospects in the lower-mid minors, and we still have a pretty young team. the future imo is bright..just dont feel their should be much expectations this year.
edit: i dont think any of the pitchers rumoured for drew were worth his potential. i wouldnt have dealt him unless it was for a top of the line starter. -- the team has also run into a lot of bad luck.. right when ankiel appears to be coming back he hurts himself and is out for the season, morris was really rollin until injuries.. and im guessing exhaustion from pitching so much because of a bad bullpen. they gambled alot on players because they have spent too much money on other players. i thought tino would be better.. but still 7mil seems like a heckuva lot of money to spend on an aging player.. maybe i just undervalue talent.
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BigRed said:
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pol said:
yan is coming around.. i think he can be a solid part of this bullpen.. after a horrid start he dropped his era significantly altho the last week or two he hasnt pitched very well. i dont understand tony's moves.. especially the other night against pitt when he brought in borbon in the ninth to keep it tied.. wouldnt most managers bring in their closer to give their o another chance?
the biggest problem with this team is where they have spent their money..
7mil+ for tino's production..
they arent getting the production from matt morris that he is worth.
IMO woody is somewhat overpaid as well.. same with scott rolen. they are getting NO production from the 4-5 million that vina is getting paid.. and to think we could have got russ ortiz for him in the off season. drew has been hurt.. and stupid freakin jim edmonds hurts himself in the home run derby... he decides to gut it out for the all star game.. but afterward takes 2 weeks off when it matters.
tomko is making 3mil altho he has pitched better.. they also wasted money signing joey hamilton and al levine who they cut before the season started.. luckilly we have dan haren, bo hart, and albert pujols at cheap or who knows how far out of first we would be.
owners who dont want to spend big bucks and a somewhat depleted farm system(at least in triple a) and their is no big deadline move to spark this team.
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First off, should Tony have put in Izzy in the 9th to push the game into extras? Absolutely Not.
If you're at home, you make this move. Not on the road. You save your closer for closing. That's his job. I mean, come on, if he had put in Izzy and went to the 10th, then the Cards take a lead while having to pinch hit for the pitcher. They then bring in whoever to close the game in the bottom half and he blows it...well, people'd be all over Tony for using the closer too early.
Secondly, the team tried to get Giambi. He went to the Yankees (don't blame him). McGwire retired. And Pujols was a minor league third baseman.
They went out and got Tino, but he hasn't performed at an extrememely high level. But, compared to whom? Bagwell? Lee? McGriff? Thome? Casey? Vaughn? Actually, he's been fairly comparable to the other first basemen in the league, but you're right, he could do us a little better.
Third, Matt Morris has been worn out by the bullpen. Period.
Fourth. Woody Williams makes $4.464 million, is 14-6 and was an all-star. He's not overpaid.
Fifth. Scott Rolen is the best all-around third baseman and best defensive third baseman in the majors. Bottom line. And you'll love his contract when the Cardinals have the third base position filled with this guy for the next 7 years.
Sixth. Yes Vina is overpaid. And I've never tried to hide my desire to permanently remove him from the team. But, he was fantastic a couple of years ago and has been hurt almost all this year. Hence, the team not trading him at the deadline.
And if you really think the Cards had a Vina for Ortiz straight up deal, I would have to question it. I really don't think San Fran was THAT desperate for a second baseman. And don't quote anybody except for either one of the GMs. Speculation and blowing things out of proportion is what some newspaper reporters do best.
Seventh. Drew has been a flop. Major flop. But would you have traded him straight up for Kevin Jarvis? Cory Lidle? John Thomson? I sure wouldn't. Hey, him not being traded was because we couldn't get equal value.
Eighth. Jim Edmonds injury was unfortunate. But things happen. However, Jim Edmonds' toughness should never come into question. He has played on an average of 150 games a season since coming to the Cardinals. Remember, he was considered injury prone, a bad teammate and a locker room cancer in Anaheim? Well, he's proven himself to be the absolute opposite with the Cardinals. Ultimate Leader.
Ninth. Tomko is a headcase and will be gone next year.
Tenth. Management took the cheap route in putting together the bullpen this year. AND they gave up on Al Levine WAYYYY too early. But, these things happen. You can't always be right and you can't always predict the future.
Bottom Line. The team is not that bad. And next year, issues will be addressed. However, the season is not over and they're right there. Don't jump ship. And be thankful you root for a team that year in and year out has management and ownership that tries to put the best team on the field. Doesn't always happen, but they put forth an tremendous effort.
It's a lot better then rooting for some other teams I can think of.
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i thought woody was more near 7-9 mil.. is it 4mil this year with tons deferred? i didnt think woody was worth the gamble in the off-season..except for the fact he could have ended up in houston. obviously he put up a tremendous first half.. but he hasnt done anything since the break. rolen may be the best 3rd basemen in the league.. but that doesnt mean he is worth 9million a year. especially to a team like the cardinals who cant spend 100+ mil. and this team isnt that good.. their struggling to stay in first in the worst division in baseball with the highest payroll in the division.
im happy as a cardinal fan. i just dont think they are a good enuf team to win this poor division right now with a super-streaky offense and no pitching.
thanks for clearing up the closer thing..
all walt has done to this team tho is bring in expensive players in trades and thats why they are so strapped for cash now.. how is jim edmonds the ultimate leader?
their are bright spots tho.. sposedly we have a large amount of good young pitching prospects in the lower-mid minors, and we still have a pretty young team. the future imo is bright..just dont feel their should be much expectations this year.
edit: i dont think any of the pitchers rumoured for drew were worth his potential. i wouldnt have dealt him unless it was for a top of the line starter. -- the team has also run into a lot of bad luck.. right when ankiel appears to be coming back he hurts himself and is out for the season, morris was really rollin until injuries.. and im guessing exhaustion from pitching so much because of a bad bullpen. they gambled alot on players because they have spent too much money on other players. i thought tino would be better.. but still 7mil seems like a heckuva lot of money to spend on an aging player.. maybe i just undervalue talent.
cause our pitching is the worst!
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