Derek Jeter

[jth1331]

Re: Derek Jeter

Honestly I think its ridiculous people don't think Jeter is a HOFer.
He has a couple more seasons left and is almost a lock for 3,000 hits, he has over 200 homeruns, over 1,000 RBI's and over 1,600 runs scored, his career average is .314, his career OBP is .385, career OPS is .837.
With that said, no way does he deserve anything CLOSE to what he has been paid recently.

[Knight165]

Re: Derek Jeter

Met fan.
There is NO WAY that Jeter isn't a Hall of Fame player. No way.
All of the reasons listed above, plus he's been class from day one.
Name me one team that would look back on Jeter's career and say they wouldn't have taken that as their SS every year for the last 15+ years.

M.K.
Knight165

[ryan36]

Re: Derek Jeter

Met fan.

Thanks for clearing that up Knight...I know there has been major confusion about this on these boards

[Speedy]

Re: Derek Jeter

Sabermetrics completely ruined the game already.

I can never tell when sarcasm is deployed by Snepp.

[TheWorldIsYours]

Re: Derek Jeter

Would he be a HOFer had he spent his entire career playing for the Royals?

Should Cal Ripken Jr. not be a hall of famer because he played his entire career with the Orioles?

Before Derek Jeter got their the Yankees had not one a title since the 70's. He didnt inherit a winning team they became a dynasty while he was the star player for them.

I seriously dont get why you guys are even asking this ? but w/e

[RonnieG]

Re: Derek Jeter

Should Cal Ripken Jr. not be a hall of famer because he played his entire career with the Orioles?

Before Derek Jeter got their the Yankees had not one a title since the 70's. He didnt inherit a winning team they became a dynasty while he was the star player for them.

I seriously dont get why you guys are even asking this ? but w/e

Your Cal Ripken reference makes little sense to me.

Im not even saying Jeter shouldnt get in.

I just think people need to be fair about this. It shouldnt be held against someone for playing on a bad team and this also means that someone's accomplishments shouldnt be inflated because they played on a good team. Just because someone plays on a bad team, that doesnt mean they dont do as much or more to help their team win. People shoulndt get credit for or be criticized for what their teammates did.

[NYJets]

Re: Derek Jeter

I just think people need to be fair about this. It shouldnt be held against someone for playing on a bad team and this also means that someone's accomplishments shouldnt be inflated because they played on a good team. Just because someone plays on a bad team, that doesnt mean they dont do as much or more to help their team win. People shoulndt get credit for or be criticized for what their teammates did.

I think everyone who has replied agrees with this, it just doesn't apply to Jeter, at least not as far as making it to the hall of fame. It does apply in the way that the media talks about him, but if you ignore all that bs, he's a hall of famer by every objective measure.

[bigfnjoe96]

Re: Derek Jeter

Jeter getting his 3,000 hit makes him a LOCK for the Hall of Fame. If his career was to had ended @ the end of this season, then the "Is he or isn't he" debate would be an interesting-1

[Sandman42]

Re: Derek Jeter

I think everyone who has replied agrees with this, it just doesn't apply to Jeter, at least not as far as making it to the hall of fame. It does apply in the way that the media talks about him, but if you ignore all that bs, he's a hall of famer by every objective measure.

Exactly. What he's talking about is better applied to a guy like Paul O'Neil. A good player in his prime, but probably a little overrated by the titles the Yankees won. His value as a player is looked at a little higher by the media just because he played on all those championship teams.

[Chip Douglass]

Re: Derek Jeter

Would he be a HOFer had he spent his entire career playing for the Royals?

Jeter's career offensive production gets him in anywhere.

[Perfect Zero]

Re: Derek Jeter

I don't know about the HOF debate, but I will say that Derek Jeter isn't even the best shortstop on his team right now. Now, that's not going to stop the Yankees IMO, but Jeter is going to hurt this team the more he plays for them. If the Yankees want to continue to advance, they need to stop overpaying for players past their prime.

That being said, I hope the Yankees re-sign him and Rivera. Young teams like the Rangers will light up the Yankees for less.

[Chip Douglass]

Re: Derek Jeter

A lot of the argument for Jeter is based on stuff he has done in the postseason. What if he had played in KC his whole career and never made it to the postseason?

Is he still good enough to be a HOFer?

That would be the argument from the BBWAA idiots.

The true ballers already know that Jeter is a HOFer regardless of the "ZOMG CAPTAIN CLUTCH!!!" hyperbole.

The postseason stuff only affects the media narrative. If he played in KC his whole career, he enters the HOF quietly as a Chipper Jones-type player where few people realize he's one of the best ever at his position. The 5 rings at least puts him in the conversation.

[RonnieG]

Re: Derek Jeter

That would be the argument from the BBWAA idiots.

The true ballers already know that Jeter is a HOFer regardless of the "ZOMG CAPTAIN CLUTCH!!!" hyperbole.

The postseason stuff only affects the media narrative. If he played in KC his whole career, he enters the HOF quietly as a Chipper Jones-type player where few people realize he's one of the best ever at his position. The 5 rings at least puts him in the conversation.

BBWAA?

Your rings comment is kind of the same hyperbole.

I dont know if Jeter is the best at his position. This is a hard issue to nail down. Before the steroid era, there wasnt really this overwhelming need to get offense out of every position on the field. Since theyve started testing youve seen fewer people at the bottom of the order who are hitting 20 + HRs. The steroid era created the need (really the perceived need) to get more offense out of the SS position. And so that brings me to my point that prior to the steroid era, defense was the premium for that position. And so, comparing Jeter with past greats using todays standards (residual from the steroid era), isnt exactly fair. Its two totally seperate endeavors. In a certain way, SSs need to be asterisked as much or more than the 1B during the steroid era. 1B has always been a position for offense. The classical formula is offense on the corners and defense up the middle. The steroid era led to an imbalance that distorted that.

What will be interesting to see going forward is if SS becomes a position that has a premium on defense again. Or will the media glom on to every SS who is a candidate to hit .300 like it has in recent years. Lets face it. The media thinks offense is more sexy and delivers more talking points so it may not really change along those lines.

In writing this response, it kind of occurs to me that Ryne Sandberg and Derek Jeter are kind of similar. Sandberg probably had more pop in his bat but both were candidates to put up good offensive numbers in a yearly basis. But Sandberg played 2B. He was very solid defensively but because SS was a position where defense was at a premium, he didnt have sufficient range. Sandberg, like Jeter, was solid defensively but limited in certain ways. They both had similar builds. I kind of wonder if Jeter would have even been a shortstop had he played in a different era. And conversely, if Sandberg would have come around 12 years later, I wonder if they would have made him a short stop. I think Sandberg actually might have been a SS or 3B coming up but even for 2B at that time he had limited range, let alone SS. At that time you had guys like Jose Lind, who played for Pittsburgh, who had incredible range at 2B. Speed and defense was a bigger part of the game back then.

But having said all that, Id be a hypocrite if I said he shouldnt get in if he gets 3000 hits. Ive been talking about fairness and that would be moving the goal posts.

[ZM Punk]

Re: Derek Jeter

I'm as big a Jeter ***** as you will ever find and think he is the most overrated player I've ever seen.

That being said, there is no doubt he is a lock for the HOF. You just can't ignore the 3,000 hits.

[NYJets]

Re: Derek Jeter

But having said all that, Id be a hypocrite if I said he shouldnt get in if he gets 3000 hits. Ive been talking about fairness and that would be moving the goal posts.

I don't get this. So the 74 hits that Jeter is going to get next year carries more weight than the previous 16 seasons?

Not that your specifically saying that 3000 hits is the difference between hall of fame and not hall of fame, just commenting on this criteria you brought up.