Best defensive 1st baseman

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  • elTodd
    Little Big Puig
    • Feb 2004
    • 1333

    #31
    Re: Best defensive 1st baseman

    Originally posted by snepp
    Don't like stats, that's fine.


    Tango's "fan scouting reports" give Pujols a very slight edge over Teixeira in the field. Those are real people, watching real players, giving real grades. None of that "made up **** you can't calculate."
    Which is still an opinion. Deciding who is "the best" is all about perception and opinions. That's all I'm trying to say.

    Stats can give you information, but its your perception of that information that helps form your opinion of who is better. And in my opinion Tex is better than Pujols. I don't see why that is wrong, even if the stats don't agree.

    Comment

    • snepp
      We'll waste him too.
      • Apr 2003
      • 10007

      #32
      Re: Best defensive 1st baseman

      There's really no right or wrong when you're talking about the top handful of guys, the differences between them are going to be very small, especially at first base.

      I'll just never understand completely ignoring valuable data points when forming an opinion.
      Member of The OS Baseball Rocket Scientists Association

      Comment

      • elTodd
        Little Big Puig
        • Feb 2004
        • 1333

        #33
        Re: Best defensive 1st baseman

        Originally posted by snepp
        There's really no right or wrong when you're talking about the top handful of guys, the differences between them are going to be very small, especially at first base.

        I'll just never understand completely ignoring valuable data points when forming an opinion.
        I'm just not much of a stats guy in general. That goes for almost all sports.

        I honestly don't see how defensive stats can be calculated. There are way too many variables for me to be able to take them seriously.

        I just don't understand why these advanced stats are taken as gospel by some people and that basic stats and the "eye test" are not valid ways to form an opinion. If you don't agree with my opinion, then so what. Its not like I'm voting for any awards.

        Comment

        • Sportsforever
          NL MVP
          • Mar 2005
          • 20368

          #34
          Re: Best defensive 1st baseman

          Originally posted by elTodd
          I'm just not much of a stats guy in general. That goes for almost all sports.

          I honestly don't see how defensive stats can be calculated. There are way too many variables for me to be able to take them seriously.

          I just don't understand why these advanced stats are taken as gospel by some people and that basic stats and the "eye test" are not valid ways to form an opinion. If you don't agree with my opinion, then so what. Its not like I'm voting for any awards.
          I understand your dislike for stats...that's fine. What you should realize is that the folks that do modern stats DO not just plug stuff into a formula and it spits it out. They have video of EVERY play a player made/didn't make that is taken into account. I do agree that 1B is quirky when it comes to defensive stats, but I would never discount someone who watched every play a player made for my "I saw him almost everyday" opinion.
          "People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." - Rogers Hornsby

          Comment

          • BatsareBugs
            LVP
            • Feb 2003
            • 12553

            #35
            Re: Best defensive 1st baseman

            UZR, I believe Adrian had some negative UZR's too.

            I really don't have an opinion on who the best defensive first basemen is, I just know from paying more attention on the NL side Pujols and Gonzalez were definitely tops. I'll give Adrian the advantage simply because left-handed fielders have that advantage at snuffing out sacrifice bunts and getting the lead runner. Of course now that he's in a city with more exposure but a different league-style, he unfortunately won't get many opportunities, but it's little things like that.

            Comment

            • elTodd
              Little Big Puig
              • Feb 2004
              • 1333

              #36
              Re: Best defensive 1st baseman

              Originally posted by Sportsforever
              I understand your dislike for stats...that's fine. What you should realize is that the folks that do modern stats DO not just plug stuff into a formula and it spits it out. They have video of EVERY play a player made/didn't make that is taken into account. I do agree that 1B is quirky when it comes to defensive stats, but I would never discount someone who watched every play a player made for my "I saw him almost everyday" opinion.
              I did not know that. Thanks for that info.

              But even then, its up to those guys to determine. Its their opinion on whether or not Player A could have gotten to said ball, that hypothetically Player B could. Again, too many variables for my liking. But I understand the desire to try and quantify these aspects of the game.

              Comment

              • Sportsforever
                NL MVP
                • Mar 2005
                • 20368

                #37
                Re: Best defensive 1st baseman

                Originally posted by elTodd
                I did not know that. Thanks for that info.

                But even then, its up to those guys to determine. Its their opinion on whether or not Player A could have gotten to said ball, that hypothetically Player B could. Again, too many variables for my liking. But I understand the desire to try and quantify these aspects of the game.
                Just to demonstrate for you, and this is just a Jeter/Everett comparison, but it gives a good example of the stuff they are doing:



                I find this stuff fascinating!
                "People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." - Rogers Hornsby

                Comment

                • elTodd
                  Little Big Puig
                  • Feb 2004
                  • 1333

                  #38
                  Re: Best defensive 1st baseman

                  Originally posted by Sportsforever
                  Just to demonstrate for you, and this is just a Jeter/Everett comparison, but it gives a good example of the stuff they are doing:



                  I find this stuff fascinating!
                  Touche, sir. Touche.

                  Comment

                  • Sportsforever
                    NL MVP
                    • Mar 2005
                    • 20368

                    #39
                    Re: Best defensive 1st baseman

                    Originally posted by elTodd
                    Touche, sir. Touche.
                    Pretty cool stuff, isn't it!?
                    "People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." - Rogers Hornsby

                    Comment

                    • 55
                      Banned
                      • Mar 2006
                      • 20857

                      #40
                      Re: Best defensive 1st baseman

                      One more time just for old time's sake:

                      <object height="390" width="640">


                      <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/z3zuwF15Ios?fs=1&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" height="390" width="640"></object>



                      Never gets old...
                      Last edited by 55; 04-17-2011, 05:22 PM.

                      Comment

                      • elTodd
                        Little Big Puig
                        • Feb 2004
                        • 1333

                        #41
                        Re: Best defensive 1st baseman

                        I'm assuming that was directed at me?

                        Comment

                        • 55
                          Banned
                          • Mar 2006
                          • 20857

                          #42
                          Re: Best defensive 1st baseman

                          Originally posted by elTodd
                          I'm assuming that was directed at me?
                          Nope.

                          It's just something I post whenever people (no matter who they are) are going back and forth on sabermetrics versus traditional statistics. I have probably posted it half a dozen times so no need to take a YouTube cartoon personally.

                          Comment

                          • Highroad214
                            Rookie
                            • Mar 2011
                            • 88

                            #43
                            Re: Best defensive 1st baseman

                            Even though he's not playing anymore....Doug Mientkiewicz.

                            Currently...hmmmm....Carlos Pena.

                            Comment

                            • NDAlum
                              ND
                              • Jun 2010
                              • 11453

                              #44
                              Re: Best defensive 1st baseman

                              LOL @ Ryan Howard

                              Tex
                              SOS Madden League (PS4) | League Archives
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                              NL East Champs 5x | WS Champion 1x (2020)

                              Comment

                              • Dog
                                aka jnes12/JNes__
                                • Aug 2008
                                • 11846

                                #45
                                While Howard is not an elite defender, he isn't as bad as everyone thinks

                                Sent from my LG Ally using Tapatalk
                                Eagles | Phillies | Sixers | Flyers
                                PSN: JNes__

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