Are closers overrated?

[12]

What do you say?

If so, why?

If not, why?

I don't really know what to think. Being an M's fan, I've had to endure Brandon League blowing three saves in a row this week. During that time, he's pitched 1.2 innings, giving up nine hits while posting a 37.80 ERA.

I had a discussion on the way home from work with a buddy about this and am just curious as to what others think.

[buckeye02]

Re: Our closers overrated?

What do you say?

If so, why?

If not, why?

I don't really know what to think. Being an M's fan, I've had to endure Brandon League blowing three saves in a row this week. During that time, he's pitched 1.2 innings, giving up nine hits while posting a 37.80 ERA.

I had a discussion on the way from work with a buddy about this and am just curious as to what others think.

Are closers overrated. They're not your closers. Dont worry my brother uses our in that way too.

Being an Indians fan i love closers right now. Tough loss. Do i think they're overrated.....no. You have to have that special attribute about yourself to walk out in a tight game and deliver a win. Its a big time pressure situation that not everyone can handle. Closers are usually wierd individuals in a way. Each closer has a uniqueness about them. Also most closer have an intimidating feature about them that im sure works to their advantage in one way or another. my 0.02.

[55]

Re: Our closers overrated?

Nope.

Case in point:

Spoiler

/thread

[12]

Re: Our closers overrated?

Are closers overrated. They're not your closers. Dont worry my brother uses our in that way too.

Being an Indians fan i love closers right now. Tough loss. Do i think they're overrated.....no. You have to have that special attribute about yourself to walk out in a tight game and deliver a win. Its a big time pressure situation that not everyone can handle. Closers are usually wierd individuals in a way. Each closer has a uniqueness about them. Also most closer have an intimidating feature about them that im sure works to their advantage in one way or another. my 0.02.

Edited; just a minor wrong word usage brain fart. I know the difference, bud. I do find it funny that you corrected my usage of the word when your reply is littered with all sorts of improper grammar mishaps. No offense.

Good points, though. It was a tough loss. Pronk crushed that pitch. League and has 2-seamers down the heart of the plate...

[Blzer]

Re: Our closers overrated?

Closers are not. The save statistic is, however. I feel like closers are put in games more so just because their save stat can be boosted by one each time out, even if they aren't the most fit that night or they don't have the best stuff.

I somewhat appreciate the identity of a closer though. I first felt it most when I saw Major League, and it's really become something since then with their walk-in music and getting that one inning to show their most powerful fastball. So while I appreciate the magic, unless you were Eric Gagne on his **** streak I'm not quite feeling the love for closers, especially with how many blown saves we see.

We see starters throw four scoreless innings like it's nothing; it shouldn't be so difficult for closers to be able to do this. Saves just aren't what they used to be when pitchers would go multiple innings for a save (this wasn't an "all the time" kind of thing, but it happened more often than it does now).

[buckeye02]

Re: Our closers overrated?

Edited; just a minor wrong word usage brain fart. I know the difference, bud. I do find it funny that you corrected my usage of the word when your reply is littered with all sorts of improper grammar mishaps. No offense.

Good points, though. It was a tough loss. Pronk crushed that pitch. League and has 2-seamers down the heart of the plate...

Fair enough.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: Are closers overrated?

I don't believe they are. The Cardinals would kill for a legitimate closer right now. How many games have been blown by their 'pen/closer by now?

[snepp]

Re: Our closers overrated?

Closers are not. The save statistic is, however. I feel like closers are put in games more so just because their save stat can be boosted by one each time out, even if they aren't the most fit that night or they don't have the best stuff.

This, though I'd go one step further.

The save statistic, as it exists, is ****ing garbage. The fact that "professional" managers base their late-game decision making around it makes it even worse.

There's nothing overrated about having a guaranteed shutdown arm in the back of your pen though. The way they get used can be maddening though, long gone are the days of the "fireman" that would come into the biggest spot, regardless of inning.

[Chrisksaint]

Re: Are closers overrated?

Last year Leo Nunez blew a ton of saves and games, this year he's been lights out which has led the Marlins to win those close games and has us sitting with the 2nd best record in the NL. So like everyone else I feel a save is overrated but not the closer himself

[NDAlum]

Re: Are closers overrated?

Closer is vital to a team's success

[CabreraMVP]

Re: Are closers overrated?

No. People always say 'you could just use any reliever in the 9th and the result will be the same.' I don't agree with that all.

From my experiences. The Tigers had Todd Jones closing for them for years. He was called the roller coaster. He never got a save without making you pull your hair out. When the Tigers were struggling early in 2008, when they were supposed to be great. Anytime we were having a good game, getting into the 7th or 8th, you would never feel confident that you would win the game. There was plenty of times when he came into games that Detroit controlled the whole 9 innings, he would throw 10 pitches and all the sudden the Tigers are losing. That kills your team, your fans, it messes with your head.

But enter Jose Valverde. A great closer with a 2.50 something ERA and with a dominant fastball at 96 and a great splitter opposed to Jones 3.50 ERA and 89mph fastball.

Now when Detroit holds a lead in the late innings, everybody knows they will win. The same situation with Jones, and everybody is going crazy and stressing out before he even gets in the game.

In Jones last two seasons in Detroit, he saved 56 games but he blew 9 of them. He had a 4.50 ERA. His ERA in save situations was over 4. That's horrible for a closer. Even the year the Tigers went to the WS he blew 6 saves, and almost cost them game 2 of the WS.

But Valverde in his season and a half in Detroit, is 35 for 38 with a 2.50 ERA. It's a huge difference and has a big effect on the team.

My favorite way to measure closers in ERA in save situations. ERA in general is misleading, in 2009 Fernando Rodney was 37/38 with a 4.40 ERA. But in save situations his ERA was only 2.79. He basically perfect whenever Detroit needed a save. But if you look at his numbers his high ERA might draw you away.

[SPTO]

Re: Are closers overrated?

Nope they're not overrated. Just look at the Blue Jays last year. Kevin Gregg cost the Jays at least 5 games with his blown saves "grrr" I also remember the days of Henke and Ward as a kid. Those two made managing a helluva lot easier as games would essentially be 7 inning affairs as it was nearly impossible to score off of those two.

[Watson]

No, they are not Overrated. Are thry over used, yes at times. When a closer comes in with a 3 run lead on a may tuesday, it's a little over the top and stat padding, but when it comes down to it, about how many 1 or 2 run wins or losses do you have in a year?

[Chip Douglass]

Re: Our closers overrated?

This, though I'd go one step further.

The save statistic, as it exists, is ****ing garbage. The fact that "professional" managers base their late-game decision making around it makes it even worse.

There's nothing overrated about having a guaranteed shutdown arm in the back of your pen though. The way they get used can be maddening though, long gone are the days of the "fireman" that would come into the biggest spot, regardless of inning.

This, but I'll also add that closers can be overrated if they aren't accepted for what they are - 70-80 inning pitchers who work in specialized roles since they weren't good enough to start.

As great as Mariano Rivera is, he isn't appreciably more valuable than even a decent-to-good middle-of-the-rotation starter. Obviously, I'd love to have Rivera over the Dodgers' closer-by-committee trio, but I wouldn't take him over, say, Hiroki Kuroda.

[rsox]

Re: Are closers overrated?

As many have said "closers" are not overrated, perhaps the save stat is.
In 2008 Mike Scioscia would trot Francisco Rodriguez to the mound in the 8th inning if needed so Rodriguez could be in a "save situation" while he was chasing the single season record.

As for Todd Jones, a lot of pitchers should not be closers, Jones at times was definitely one of them. Brandon Lyon is currently an example of a guy having to close games that probably shouldn't
I remember in 1995 the Red Sox started the year with Ken Ryan as their closer. Ryan could not setle down on the mound until he had walked at least two batters in an inning. Later that season they traded for Rick Aguilera, so the job is not for everybody.