8/1 - 8/7 Game Discussion Thread

[Watson]

Re: 8/1 - 8/7 Game Discussion Thread

Take that argument to the "baseball unwritten rules thread". Steal with a 6 run lead in the 9th may be a "bitch" move (love the overuse of that word these days), but not when the other team still has 12 outs to go. Or are you saying your team is gonna pack it in because it's already the 6th inning?

Nope. If you're going to try and leg out a double or triple, i'm fine with that. But what is the point of stealing 2nd with a 6 run lead? Just play the game straight up at that point. It's just spiteful.

Ya, Victorino has be the ONLY guy to get hit and start walking toward the mound. Ya. I guess EVERYONE else who has been plunked and has walked to or charged the mound is now a "bitch" throughout baseball history.

awh, woe is you. You believe Shane really wanted an explanation from Ramirez as well?

Take it to the media?? What in the world are you talking about? What does the media have to do with any of this. Take it to the media? Take what to the media?

Not sure what you're trying to accomplish here, but I'll entertain your "point". Take your issue with Ramirez to the media.

And I agree with Blzer. Why take it out on Victorino is beyond me. If you wanted to hit somebody that badly, it may as well make sense and bean Rollins on a pickoff attempt or something.

[Skerik]

Re: 8/1 - 8/7 Game Discussion Thread

July 2, 2003, Beltran steals 2nd while up 5 runs in the 6th.

July 25, 2003, Beltran steals 3rd up 4 runs in the 7th.

There are likely other examples, but these are two I found after maybe a minute of searching. I guess it's bush league unless Carlos Beltran is doing it to someone else. And as posted above, the fact that he thinks the game is over and done with down 6 runs in the 6th inning tells you everything you need to know about what a gritty "never say die" competitor he is.

Baseball should really publish a handy dandy laminated cheat sheet of its so-called unwritten rules. Eight runs in the 7th inning is bad, and so is six runs in the 6th inning, but five runs in the 6th inning is apparently ok. But if every manager had this sheet and could refer to it during the game, nobody would ever feel the need to act like complete bitches by hitting batters for breaking the unwritten rules. Because they would be written down. Maybe automatic expulsion from the game is in order if you're playing to win too late in a game that is apparently already decided?

(See how dumb this all sounds....?)

[Watson]

Re: 8/1 - 8/7 Game Discussion Thread

I'm not saying the game is over by that point, but to yall I guess I am. So if you would direct me to where I said that, it would be appreciated.

You have a grand-slam proof lead, you don't need to push the envelope and milk out as many runs as possible on the bases. I'm not saying it's time to start laying down bunts the rest of the game, but stealing 2nd with a grand-slam proof lead is simply unnecessary.

[daflyboys]

Re: 8/1 - 8/7 Game Discussion Thread

Nope. If you're going to try and leg out a double or triple, i'm fine with that. But what is the point of stealing 2nd with a 6 run lead? Just play the game straight up at that point. It's just spiteful.

Stealing 2nd to help assure you will win since the game is definitely not out of reach IS straight up. Last I checked, stealing wasn't some type of "baseball gadget play". It's a strategy.

awh, woe is you. You believe Shane really wanted an explanation from Ramirez as well?

Not sure what you're trying to accomplish here, but I'll entertain your "point". Take your issue with Ramirez to the media.

The only thing that's entertaining me is trying to figure out from where your opinions emanate. Though, you only simply repeated what you already said. So I guess I will too. What in the **** does the media have to do with this. Have you seen how the media handles most anything these days? I'd rather have less media in my life acting as sounding board or arbitrator.

What amazes me is that you call everything a "bitch" move, but Victorino going to the media isn't.

And I agree with Blzer. Why take it out on Victorino is beyond me. If you wanted to hit somebody that badly, it may as well make sense and bean Rollins on a pickoff attempt or something.

You had me then you lost me. You're not okay with stealing 2nd in the 6th up 6 runs, but you are okay with beaning a runner on a pickoff attempt, um, before he steals the bag?? Ya, now I need further entertaining from the standpoint of 1.) Throwing at a baserunner who you THINK is going to steal a bag in a game that is "grand slam proof" (<<-- my new favorite expression) and 2) beaning a baserunner AT ALL!! Please, I need some video footage to see when that was ever done.

Wait... I just remembered that you root for the Braves, so this is all now making sense. Just like Beltran complaining about Rollins stealing.

[Dog]

Re: 8/1 - 8/7 Game Discussion Thread

Because stealing 2nd with a 6 run lead was not a bitch move?

It's his JOB to do that. Last time I checked a 6 run lead in the 6th doesn't mean to call off the dogs..

[av7]

Re: 8/1 - 8/7 Game Discussion Thread

Nicasio got hit hard enough by a linedrive off of his pitch that it fractured a vertebrae in his neck, had to have surgery because of it.

Has there been any other pitcher who's had that happen before, fracturing a vertebrae from a linedrive?

[JBH3]

Re: 8/1 - 8/7 Game Discussion Thread

I'm not saying the game is over by that point, but to yall I guess I am. So if you would direct me to where I said that, it would be appreciated.

You have a grand-slam proof lead, you don't need to push the envelope and milk out as many runs as possible on the bases. I'm not saying it's time to start laying down bunts the rest of the game, but stealing 2nd with a grand-slam proof lead is simply unnecessary.

A Braves fan?! Acting as if runs are easy to come by?! I think you should be encouraging YOUR team to score as many runs as possible, and especially doing so when the opportunity to move runners presents itself.

[JBH3]

Re: 8/1 - 8/7 Game Discussion Thread

Or...and here's a NOVEL idea...don't let runners ON.

[Blzer]

Re: 8/1 - 8/7 Game Discussion Thread

Well, here's where I get what Watson is saying... when that threshold is reached, I think you simply don't steal bases; but I think it's out of the reason that, the worth of you getting out on the base paths is much more important than the worth of you advancing an extra base, at that point. My opinion on the matter doesn't have to do with respecting the other team. It's the same thing as playing the infield in to try and make a play at the plate... I just don't think that, when you're at that threshold, there is a reason to sacrifice field coverage for run protection. It's best just to get an out at that point.

However, as I said earlier, I don't agree with his threshold. The Giants still had twelve outs to work with. Six runs with their new lineup is fathomable, and only a few runs means it's time to warm up the set-up man and closer, which means it's serious enough for Philadelphia. If you are ahead by more runs than the number of offensive outs the other team has left (or around those whereabouts), then we can talk thresholds. This is the reason these rules are "unwritten." Nothing is definite, and nothing is violating.

By the way, was this actually the reason Ramirez hit Victorino? Was this confirmed? It seems like we are mostly talking about this because it ended up being a fire starter, but I don't seem to actually remember anybody verifying this was the sole reason for the ensuing brawl.

[snepp]

Re: 8/1 - 8/7 Game Discussion Thread

Nope. If you're going to try and leg out a double or triple, i'm fine with that. But what is the point of stealing 2nd with a 6 run lead? Just play the game straight up at that point. It's just spiteful.

I'm not saying the game is over by that point, but to yall I guess I am.

So the game's not over, but trying to put the game out of reach, by doing what you're supposed to be doing (scoring runs) is a bad thing.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

[Watson]

Re: 8/1 - 8/7 Game Discussion Thread

So the game's not over, but trying to put the game out of reach, by doing what you're supposed to be doing (scoring runs) is a bad thing.

again, where did I say that? Because I do not recall saying it.

There's a line between staying on the offensive (being active at the plate, not swinging at everything you see/bunting to speed the game up) and being overly aggressive in trying to score runs (stealing bases when up by 5 or more)

[Dog]

Re: 8/1 - 8/7 Game Discussion Thread

again, where did I say that? Because I do not recall saying it.

There's a line between staying on the offensive (being active at the plate, not swinging at everything you see to speed the game up) and being overly aggressive in trying to score runs (stealing bases when up by 5 or more)

Stealing 2nd is being overly aggressive?

[Watson]

Re: 8/1 - 8/7 Game Discussion Thread

Stealing 2nd is being overly aggressive?

When you are up by more than a grand slam, yes, it becomes pretty unnecessary.

[Dog]

Re: 8/1 - 8/7 Game Discussion Thread

When you are up by more than a grand slam, yes, it becomes pretty unnecessary.

So what happens if a team comes back? Would it have been unnecessary to made the lead insurmountable at that point? Come on, dude

[matthewsR112]

Re: 8/1 - 8/7 Game Discussion Thread

By the way, was this actually the reason Ramirez hit Victorino? Was this confirmed? It seems like we are mostly talking about this because it ended up being a fire starter, but I don't seem to actually remember anybody verifying this was the sole reason for the ensuing brawl.

from MLB.com
Everybody in the Phillies clubhouse believes Ramirez intentionally threw at Victorino. The Giants did not exactly dispute that, although Giants catcher Eli Whiteside said he called for a pitch inside that was "a little too inside."