Who's get the worst contract?

[CabreraMVP]

Re: Who's get the worst contract?

Tigers had the triple crown last year. Bonderman, Willis, Robertson, all making 10+ million. Robertson earned that from Detroit pitching for another team, same with Willis, and Bonderman lived up the contract with a nice ERA around 5.

[antilowpe]

Re: Who's get the worst contract?

A-Rod.
Such money thrown for such an average production.

[NYJets]

Re: Who's get the worst contract?

A-Rod.
Such money thrown for such an average production.

Do you know what average means?

No Yankee fan likes A-Rod's contract, and down the road it could be pretty bad, but at the moment he's still an all star caliber player, and does not belong in this discussion when you have guys like Wells, Bay, Zito, Burnett, and others just stealing money.

[DrJones]

Re: Who's get the worst contract?

Do you know what average means?

No Yankee fan likes A-Rod's contract, and down the road it could be pretty bad, but at the moment he's still an all star caliber player, and does not belong in this discussion when you have guys like Wells, Bay, Zito, Burnett, and others just stealing money.

I agree. Overpaid though he may be, A-Rod's provided much better production than any of the other players brought up.

A-Rod's OPS since he signed during the 2007/08 offseason:

2008: 2nd in AL, 1st among AL 3B
2009: 6th in AL, 2nd among AL 3B
2010: 22nd in AL, 5th among AL 3B
2011: 23rd in AL, 2nd among AL 3B

It's absolutely going to get worse, but worse than Wells or Zito? No.

Not to mention the Yankees can afford a bad contract or three and still contend. Joe Mauer's contract is going to cause the Twins far more grief than A-Rod's will the Yankees.

[CabreraMVP]

Re: Who's get the worst contract?

Not to mention the Yankees can afford a bad contract or three and still contend. Joe Mauer's contract is going to cause the Twins far more grief than A-Rod's will the Yankees.

Never bought the hype about Mauer, that contract just blows my mind. You always get all the 'HE CAN HIT AND PLAY CATCHER" crap. He's pretty good defensively, hits .300, and has no power.

I could find so many other players better than him, and more deserving of 180 million.

And they want to move him to the outfield or 1st base? So you have a RF, LF, or 1st basemen, hitting .300 with 9 home runs a season? Making 23 million a season?? What do the positional value fans have to say about that.

[ImTellinTim]

Re: Who's get the worst contract?

Never bought the hype about Mauer, that contract just blows my mind. You always get all the 'HE CAN HIT AND PLAY CATCHER" crap. He's pretty good defensively, hits .300, and has no power.

I could find so many other players better than him, and more deserving of 180 million.

And they want to move him to the outfield or 1st base? So you have a RF, LF, or 1st basemen, hitting .300 with 9 home runs a season? Making 23 million a season?? What do the positional value fans have to say about that.

LOL. One down year and this already. I get that you're the resident Tigers homer around here, but come on.

The contract is probably going to cause trouble, but you're talking like he's some kind of scrub. Did you see the season he put up only 2 years ago?

[DrJones]

Re: Who's get the worst contract?

Never bought the hype about Mauer, that contract just blows my mind. You always get all the 'HE CAN HIT AND PLAY CATCHER" crap. He's pretty good defensively, hits .300, and has no power.

Mauer hit .365/.444/.587 in 2009 while playing GG defence at catcher (Cabrera hit .324/.396/.547 that year). That's obviously of tremendous value. Where the Twins erred is in thinking that Mauer could stay behind the plate while putting up similar numbers year after year. Right now it appears he'll do neither.

And they want to move him to the outfield or 1st base? So you have a RF, LF, or 1st basemen, hitting .300 with 9 home runs a season? Making 23 million a season?? What do the positional value fans have to say about that.

For the record, Mauer hit .327 with 43 doubles to go along with his 9 HR in 2010. His .871 OPS would've ranked 5th among AL outfielders in 2010. That's perfectly acceptable, regardless of position, but not worth 23M per season, obviously. The Twins don't want to move him from catcher, of course. But injuries will likely force them to. In which case, the contract is bad unless Mauer hits like he did in 2009, and an outright disaster if he can't hit like he did in 2010.

[ImTellinTim]

Re: Who's get the worst contract?

Mauer hit .365/.444/.587 in 2009 while playing GG defence at catcher (Cabrera hit .324/.396/.547 that year). That's obviously of tremendous value. Where the Twins erred is in thinking that Mauer could stay behind the plate while putting up similar numbers year after year. Right now it appears he'll do neither.



For the record, Mauer hit .327 with 43 doubles to go along with his 9 HR in 2010. His .871 OPS would've ranked 5th among AL outfielders in 2010. That's perfectly acceptable, regardless of position, but not worth 23M per season, obviously. The Twins don't want to move him from catcher, of course. But injuries will likely force them to. In which case, the contract is bad unless Mauer hits like he did in 2009, and an outright disaster if he can't hit like he did in 2010.

I see him having a very good season at the plate next year. They rushed him back after his surgery because of the contract and it set him back. When healthy and on, he's MVP-caliber. I'm not too worried...yet.

And yes, the contract is a little outrageous, but the fans would have burned down the new stadium if they hadn't signed him long term. He had the Twins by the short hairs and he knew it.

[CabreraMVP]

Re: Who's get the worst contract?

LOL. One down year and this already. I get that you're the resident Tigers homer around here, but come on.

The contract is probably going to cause trouble, but you're talking like he's some kind of scrub. Did you see the season he put up only 2 years ago?

What does being a Tiger fan have to do with this? I like the Twins. Obviously not when they beat the Tigers, but I like them and the way they play. And My post had nothing to do with Mauers 2011 season. It's his typical season. 2009 was obviously a fluke. Mauer is not a power hitter and never will be in Target Field.

.324 hitter. That's outstanding. He gets on base a lot. He's a great hitter, Don't get confused. He has a career .870 OPS. That's where he doesn't stack up to other "great hitters." He doesn't hit for any power. In 2009 he had a great slugging percentage, due to his 28 homers. But he won't get up there again. He's only reached a .500 slugging percentage 1 other time, that was in 2006.

His career average of .324 and a .870 OPS is great. But that doesn't add up to how he is paid.

Gonzalez and Cabrera are the two best pure hitters in the American League and maybe all together in baseball. They hit for a great average, they hit for great power, they will both have OPS' near 1.000 for the next 6-7 years at least.

There is a few elite hitters. Those guys, and Bautista is another good example. Average, Power, OPS over 1.000. Those are the 3 elite hitters in the American League, the most complete hitters. The best hitters. They get paid a lot of money (Bautista's situation is different)

What does Mauer lack that Cabrera/Gonzalez don't? Power. That's why Mauer has an OPS around .870 for his career. That doesn't stack up to the elite hitters. As great as Mauer is at doing his thing (hitting for average), he is not a complete hitter because he doesn't hit for power. That is something that can't be debated.

I know Gonzalez career OPS is just .880 But that can be attributed to playing in San Diego. He still managed to average at least 60 extra base hits in those years. He's a complete hitter. He'll be in the .950 range for a long time, like what he has done this year.

That's why he isn't worth the money. He gets paid more money to hit for average, than the games best hitters get to hit for average AND power. He's not on the same level of guys who do both.

He's as good as it gets when it comes to hitting for average. But I don't feel like he's worth more money than the guys who hit for a similar average, but hit 35 homers opposed to his 9? Who post OPS near 1.000 while he is close to .900? He's a step below.

Here's my thing. He will be getting paid 23 million and will hit, say, .300, and probably won't ever reach 15 homeruns again.

Then there is the other guys who get paid in the 20 million a year range. They also hit around .330. But they hit close to 40 homers also. They offer much more to their teams.

He's not a complete hitter. He's not going to be a top 3 hitter in the AL any time soon. He won't ever surpass Gonzalez, Cabrera, or Bautista until he hits the ball out of the ballpark more than 7 times a season.

I'm not bashing the guy or anything. I'm just making a simple point that they are certain guys worth 23 million a year, and he's not one of them. Because every single statistic will show you that he's not better than any of the guys making 21-22 a year over the course of their deals.

And I didn't even look at this season. That had nothing to do with my argument. And I don't really care about 2009. It was great, MVP worthy. But it was a fluke, and everybody knows. You being a Twins fan should know why it was a fluke. I'd be glad to show you. His typical season, which is great, is not as good as the elite hitters in baseball. Period. But he gets paid better than them. That's my point. It's not hating the Twins because they play in the Central and I have to make them look bad every chance I get. It's just the truth.

I like the Twins. Lol. They play a good brand of baseball. I like Mauer a lot too. He sprays the ball all over the place. I love that. But there is elite hitters who hit for power and average, and there is guys who hit for average. Guys with Power and Average are worth more money, they are better hitters.

If I'm a GM, and I have the resources to lock up 1 guy to anchor my offense for the next decade, I'm going to pick up the guys that go .320/35/115 with an OPS near 1.000. I'm not going to build my offense around the guy hitting .320 with no power. I'm not alone.

What team I root for has nothing to do with my opinions. I don't run around and sabotage AL Central rivals to feel better about myself. I like baseball first and foremost. I like good baseball players. But that doesn't mean I have to agree with everything. Mauer can't drive in runs and his production does not match up with 23 million a season.

[CabreraMVP]

Re: Who's get the worst contract?

And I read these responses and I see "the contract is a little outrageous" and "not worth 23 million a season."

That's my point exactly. The whole thing started when somebody said his contract would hurt them down the line. If contract is "outrageous" and he's not worthy of the money, then it sounds like it will hurt them.

Didn't he sign that after 2009? It would stand to reason that the Twins paid him expecting more 2009 like seasons. If he did that every year or even close, he'd be worth as much as he's getting. But he doesn't, and he won't.

If his 09 season looked just like the seasons before, what would he have gotten? Maybe 15 million a year? That's what his typical season is worth I think. That's perfectly reasonable if Gonzalez/Cabrera will make 21-22 a season.

So will all basically agree.

[ImTellinTim]

Re: Who's get the worst contract?

Can't really argue with too much of that. I'm a little salty about this season, that's all. I also took exception to you saying he "hits .300". Most of his seasons are well over that level. Not to mention he gets on base at a .400 clip while spraying hits everywhere, including a healthy amount of doubles. His '09 season was a fluke in the home run department, but it wasn't like he was blasting them out of the park. He did absolutely nothing different than he usually does, the ball just went a little bit farther more often. He will never do that again playing in Target Field.

But again, I think his contract was more based on external pressures on the organization. Is it a bad contract? Probably. Is it completely terrible? I don't think so. I'd rather have this contract on my team's books than Ryan Howard's right now.

[CabreraMVP]

Re: Who's get the worst contract?

So we agree. And when I say ".300 hitter" I dont mean it literally, I just like that term to separate guys who consistently hit at that level. That's just me. Like I wouldn't call Peralta a .300 hitter even though he is this year. Mauer does it every year.

He's a very good hitter but is a notch below the 2 elite hitters who are Cabrera and Gonzalez, in my opinion.

[edborstein]

Re: Who's get the worst contract?

I'm surprised Alfonso Soriano hasn't been mentioned yet. He's absolutely killing the cubs.

[bccards13]

Re: Who's get the worst contract?

No Carlos Lee? Hes nearing the end of a 6 year 100 million dollar contract with, lets be generous, below average numbers for that kind of money. I'm pretty sure that Lee is probably about half the Astros' payroll as well. Lets just say when his contract is up next year, he won't be missed.

[Reaman]

Re: Who's get the worst contract?

Allan James Burnett.