The A's are terrible

**CMH** · 10-07-2003, 06:36 PM

Re: The A\'s are terrible

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
dce1228 said:
The funny thing about the A's is they don't practice what they preach. Other than Hatteberg, with maybe Ellis and Hernandez, what A's go up there and work the count? Tejada, their best player, is a complete hack at times. T-Long, Singleton-- hacks. It's in the A's minor league system that the Beane doctrine is really at work.

<hr /></blockquote>

Well, remember those guys were NOT brought over by Beane. Beane's real players haven't come around yet. They are still in the minors.

I think people forget that Beane's philosophy isn't even in full effect. You can only credit the moves he's made. Signing Hatteberg - a man that takes pitches (only problem is that he can't run).

Tejada is gone for a reason. beane doesn't want him. beane wants his real project. I dont know his name...forgot it right now. But that ss of the future is a Beane player.

Chavez is also NOT a Beane player, but Beane sees somethin in Chavez. Problem is Chavez doesn't see it in himself.

The media has hyped up this beane philosophy, but the media is also very stupid. The beane philosophy is still waiting for it's call-up.

edit: sorry, didn't read your last line. Guess I just repeated what you said, lol.

**AI_Franchise03** · 10-07-2003, 06:39 PM

Re: The A\'s are terrible

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
YankeePride_YP said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
AI_Franchise03 said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Fundamentals, or as SportsmanTO says, "foundamentals",..

<hr /></blockquote>

Must we put the person on the spot if he spelled it wrong? You clearly understood what he meant, so spell it right, and don't ridicule him. I'm sure it was a typo on his part, and even if it wasn't, you still know who or what he is talking about.

And about the Billy Beane style of baseball, I don't agree with it. If it worked, you would have advanced farther into the playoffs by now. You DO need to bunt, steal bases, and hit & run in playoffs. Not just get on base. Playoff is much different from the regular season, and playing small-ball, yes that means "giving up your AB's", helps you score those runners, and win games. There are a lot of close games in the postseason, and these little things help you win...but I guess I don't know much about baseball because I disagree.

<hr /></blockquote>

sir, every team that has won the World Series in the past decade has played this so called "Billy Beane" style of play.

Pitching, walks, and aggressive, but smart baserunning wins games and championships.

The A's just lack the ability to close the deal. When your two best hitters are not hitting, things are not gonna go your way.

The Red Sox lost the first two games because Manny and Ortiz just didn't hit. Ortiz steps up in Game 4. Boston wins. Manny hits a three run bomb in Game 5. Boston wins. It's not coincidental.

<hr /></blockquote>

I guess Beane takes credit for good pitching, and the need to be agressive on the bases, in order to win games? That is what we call the Billy Beane's philosophy? Is this for real, or am I dreaming?

Oh, and you cannot tell me you actually believe that the BoSox won because Ortiz and Manny actually managed to get two hits. Do you really believe that is why BoSox won those two final games?

**AI_Franchise03** · 10-07-2003, 06:39 PM

Re: The A\'s are terrible

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
YankeePride_YP said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
AI_Franchise03 said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Fundamentals, or as SportsmanTO says, "foundamentals",..

<hr /></blockquote>

Must we put the person on the spot if he spelled it wrong? You clearly understood what he meant, so spell it right, and don't ridicule him. I'm sure it was a typo on his part, and even if it wasn't, you still know who or what he is talking about.

And about the Billy Beane style of baseball, I don't agree with it. If it worked, you would have advanced farther into the playoffs by now. You DO need to bunt, steal bases, and hit & run in playoffs. Not just get on base. Playoff is much different from the regular season, and playing small-ball, yes that means "giving up your AB's", helps you score those runners, and win games. There are a lot of close games in the postseason, and these little things help you win...but I guess I don't know much about baseball because I disagree.

<hr /></blockquote>

sir, every team that has won the World Series in the past decade has played this so called "Billy Beane" style of play.

Pitching, walks, and aggressive, but smart baserunning wins games and championships.

The A's just lack the ability to close the deal. When your two best hitters are not hitting, things are not gonna go your way.

The Red Sox lost the first two games because Manny and Ortiz just didn't hit. Ortiz steps up in Game 4. Boston wins. Manny hits a three run bomb in Game 5. Boston wins. It's not coincidental.

<hr /></blockquote>

I guess Beane takes credit for good pitching, and the need to be agressive on the bases, in order to win games? That is what we call the Billy Beane's philosophy? Is this for real, or am I dreaming?

Oh, and you cannot tell me you actually believe that the BoSox won because Ortiz and Manny actually managed to get two hits. Do you really believe that is why BoSox won those two final games?

**AI_Franchise03** · 10-07-2003, 06:39 PM

Re: The A\'s are terrible

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
YankeePride_YP said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
AI_Franchise03 said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Fundamentals, or as SportsmanTO says, "foundamentals",..

<hr /></blockquote>

Must we put the person on the spot if he spelled it wrong? You clearly understood what he meant, so spell it right, and don't ridicule him. I'm sure it was a typo on his part, and even if it wasn't, you still know who or what he is talking about.

And about the Billy Beane style of baseball, I don't agree with it. If it worked, you would have advanced farther into the playoffs by now. You DO need to bunt, steal bases, and hit & run in playoffs. Not just get on base. Playoff is much different from the regular season, and playing small-ball, yes that means "giving up your AB's", helps you score those runners, and win games. There are a lot of close games in the postseason, and these little things help you win...but I guess I don't know much about baseball because I disagree.

<hr /></blockquote>

sir, every team that has won the World Series in the past decade has played this so called "Billy Beane" style of play.

Pitching, walks, and aggressive, but smart baserunning wins games and championships.

The A's just lack the ability to close the deal. When your two best hitters are not hitting, things are not gonna go your way.

The Red Sox lost the first two games because Manny and Ortiz just didn't hit. Ortiz steps up in Game 4. Boston wins. Manny hits a three run bomb in Game 5. Boston wins. It's not coincidental.

<hr /></blockquote>

I guess Beane takes credit for good pitching, and the need to be agressive on the bases, in order to win games? That is what we call the Billy Beane's philosophy? Is this for real, or am I dreaming?

Oh, and you cannot tell me you actually believe that the BoSox won because Ortiz and Manny actually managed to get two hits. Do you really believe that is why BoSox won those two final games?

**CMH** · 10-07-2003, 06:45 PM

Re: The A\'s are terrible

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
AI_Franchise03 said:
I guess Beane takes credit for good pitching, and the need to be agressive on the bases, in order to win games? That is what we call the Billy Beane's philosophy? Is this for real, or am I dreaming?

<hr /></blockquote>

No. I never said that. I said the A's can't close the deal and Beane doesn't have the right players to fit his philosophy.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

Oh, and you cannot tell me you actually believe that the BoSox won because Ortiz and Manny actually managed to get two hits. Do you really believe that is why BoSox won those two final games?

<hr /></blockquote>

Ummm, Ortiz hit the game winner in Game 4 and Manny hit the eventual game winner in Game 5. What did Chavez and Tejada do for the A's?

edit: Confusing two topics with one. My first answer should read, I said that the A's two hitters didn't hit. They didn't come through when they needed to. Ortiz and Manny did when they had to.

Beane can't take credit for his pitchers because he has nothing to do with the Big Three.

**CMH** · 10-07-2003, 06:45 PM

Re: The A\'s are terrible

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
AI_Franchise03 said:
I guess Beane takes credit for good pitching, and the need to be agressive on the bases, in order to win games? That is what we call the Billy Beane's philosophy? Is this for real, or am I dreaming?

<hr /></blockquote>

No. I never said that. I said the A's can't close the deal and Beane doesn't have the right players to fit his philosophy.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

Oh, and you cannot tell me you actually believe that the BoSox won because Ortiz and Manny actually managed to get two hits. Do you really believe that is why BoSox won those two final games?

<hr /></blockquote>

Ummm, Ortiz hit the game winner in Game 4 and Manny hit the eventual game winner in Game 5. What did Chavez and Tejada do for the A's?

edit: Confusing two topics with one. My first answer should read, I said that the A's two hitters didn't hit. They didn't come through when they needed to. Ortiz and Manny did when they had to.

Beane can't take credit for his pitchers because he has nothing to do with the Big Three.

**CMH** · 10-07-2003, 06:45 PM

Re: The A\'s are terrible

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
AI_Franchise03 said:
I guess Beane takes credit for good pitching, and the need to be agressive on the bases, in order to win games? That is what we call the Billy Beane's philosophy? Is this for real, or am I dreaming?

<hr /></blockquote>

No. I never said that. I said the A's can't close the deal and Beane doesn't have the right players to fit his philosophy.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

Oh, and you cannot tell me you actually believe that the BoSox won because Ortiz and Manny actually managed to get two hits. Do you really believe that is why BoSox won those two final games?

<hr /></blockquote>

Ummm, Ortiz hit the game winner in Game 4 and Manny hit the eventual game winner in Game 5. What did Chavez and Tejada do for the A's?

edit: Confusing two topics with one. My first answer should read, I said that the A's two hitters didn't hit. They didn't come through when they needed to. Ortiz and Manny did when they had to.

Beane can't take credit for his pitchers because he has nothing to do with the Big Three.

**athletics_fan** · 10-07-2003, 07:05 PM

Re: The A\'s are terrible

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
But that ss of the future is a Beane player.

<hr /></blockquote>

Bobby Crosby?

He looked terrible during his 10 AB's in the majors this season.

I sure hope he can live up to the "young phenom shortstop" moniker that he has been tagged with in the minors.

If he doesn't, getting rid of Tejada will have been a TERRIBLE move.

**athletics_fan** · 10-07-2003, 07:05 PM

Re: The A\'s are terrible

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
But that ss of the future is a Beane player.

<hr /></blockquote>

Bobby Crosby?

He looked terrible during his 10 AB's in the majors this season.

I sure hope he can live up to the "young phenom shortstop" moniker that he has been tagged with in the minors.

If he doesn't, getting rid of Tejada will have been a TERRIBLE move.

**athletics_fan** · 10-07-2003, 07:05 PM

Re: The A\'s are terrible

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
But that ss of the future is a Beane player.

<hr /></blockquote>

Bobby Crosby?

He looked terrible during his 10 AB's in the majors this season.

I sure hope he can live up to the "young phenom shortstop" moniker that he has been tagged with in the minors.

If he doesn't, getting rid of Tejada will have been a TERRIBLE move.

**AI_Franchise03** · 10-07-2003, 07:33 PM

Re: The A\'s are terrible

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
YankeePride_YP said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
AI_Franchise03 said:
I guess Beane takes credit for good pitching, and the need to be agressive on the bases, in order to win games? That is what we call the Billy Beane's philosophy? Is this for real, or am I dreaming?

<hr /></blockquote>

No. I never said that. I said the A's can't close the deal and Beane doesn't have the right players to fit his philosophy.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

Oh, and you cannot tell me you actually believe that the BoSox won because Ortiz and Manny actually managed to get two hits. Do you really believe that is why BoSox won those two final games?

<hr /></blockquote>

Ummm, Ortiz hit the game winner in Game 4 and Manny hit the eventual game winner in Game 5. What did Chavez and Tejada do for the A's?

edit: Confusing two topics with one. My first answer should read, I said that the A's two hitters didn't hit. They didn't come through when they needed to. Ortiz and Manny did when they had to.

Beane can't take credit for his pitchers because he has nothing to do with the Big Three.

<hr /></blockquote>

If the current A's players don't fit Beane's philosophy, why stay with them? Wasn't he the one who brought up these guys {Chavez, Tejada, and traded for Dye]? They must be following his style, or why else acquire them? And if he isn't responsible for drafting the three, why the hell does he get all the credit then?

These are some that I remember hapening; Byrnes could have went back and tagged homeplate, but instead he choosed to bump Varitek and get called out(no run), then Tejada blows the interference rule at 3rd and stopped running, result = no run. The interference call that worked against them, and awarded Varitek the homeplate/run. Also, how many errors did they have behind Lilly?

Right there, they could have at least tied, or send the BoSox home. Now, game 5, Ken Mecha pinchhits for Dye, and in result a K. They had their chances.

**AI_Franchise03** · 10-07-2003, 07:33 PM

Re: The A\'s are terrible

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
YankeePride_YP said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
AI_Franchise03 said:
I guess Beane takes credit for good pitching, and the need to be agressive on the bases, in order to win games? That is what we call the Billy Beane's philosophy? Is this for real, or am I dreaming?

<hr /></blockquote>

No. I never said that. I said the A's can't close the deal and Beane doesn't have the right players to fit his philosophy.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

Oh, and you cannot tell me you actually believe that the BoSox won because Ortiz and Manny actually managed to get two hits. Do you really believe that is why BoSox won those two final games?

<hr /></blockquote>

Ummm, Ortiz hit the game winner in Game 4 and Manny hit the eventual game winner in Game 5. What did Chavez and Tejada do for the A's?

edit: Confusing two topics with one. My first answer should read, I said that the A's two hitters didn't hit. They didn't come through when they needed to. Ortiz and Manny did when they had to.

Beane can't take credit for his pitchers because he has nothing to do with the Big Three.

<hr /></blockquote>

If the current A's players don't fit Beane's philosophy, why stay with them? Wasn't he the one who brought up these guys {Chavez, Tejada, and traded for Dye]? They must be following his style, or why else acquire them? And if he isn't responsible for drafting the three, why the hell does he get all the credit then?

These are some that I remember hapening; Byrnes could have went back and tagged homeplate, but instead he choosed to bump Varitek and get called out(no run), then Tejada blows the interference rule at 3rd and stopped running, result = no run. The interference call that worked against them, and awarded Varitek the homeplate/run. Also, how many errors did they have behind Lilly?

Right there, they could have at least tied, or send the BoSox home. Now, game 5, Ken Mecha pinchhits for Dye, and in result a K. They had their chances.

**AI_Franchise03** · 10-07-2003, 07:33 PM

Re: The A\'s are terrible

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
YankeePride_YP said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
AI_Franchise03 said:
I guess Beane takes credit for good pitching, and the need to be agressive on the bases, in order to win games? That is what we call the Billy Beane's philosophy? Is this for real, or am I dreaming?

<hr /></blockquote>

No. I never said that. I said the A's can't close the deal and Beane doesn't have the right players to fit his philosophy.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

Oh, and you cannot tell me you actually believe that the BoSox won because Ortiz and Manny actually managed to get two hits. Do you really believe that is why BoSox won those two final games?

<hr /></blockquote>

Ummm, Ortiz hit the game winner in Game 4 and Manny hit the eventual game winner in Game 5. What did Chavez and Tejada do for the A's?

edit: Confusing two topics with one. My first answer should read, I said that the A's two hitters didn't hit. They didn't come through when they needed to. Ortiz and Manny did when they had to.

Beane can't take credit for his pitchers because he has nothing to do with the Big Three.

<hr /></blockquote>

If the current A's players don't fit Beane's philosophy, why stay with them? Wasn't he the one who brought up these guys {Chavez, Tejada, and traded for Dye]? They must be following his style, or why else acquire them? And if he isn't responsible for drafting the three, why the hell does he get all the credit then?

These are some that I remember hapening; Byrnes could have went back and tagged homeplate, but instead he choosed to bump Varitek and get called out(no run), then Tejada blows the interference rule at 3rd and stopped running, result = no run. The interference call that worked against them, and awarded Varitek the homeplate/run. Also, how many errors did they have behind Lilly?

Right there, they could have at least tied, or send the BoSox home. Now, game 5, Ken Mecha pinchhits for Dye, and in result a K. They had their chances.

**dce1228** · 10-07-2003, 07:34 PM

Re: The A\'s are terrible

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
YankeePride_YP said:
Beane can't take credit for his pitchers because he has nothing to do with the Big Three.

<hr /></blockquote>

So where did the big 3 come from? Was it a stroke of luck that Mulder/Zito/Hudson appeared on the A's? From what I understand, Mulder was a no-brainer, a 1st round pick and college pitcher just about everyone wanted... but Zito and Hudson. Zito had great stats in College, which got Beane's attention, but other teams didn't want him because of his fastball-- what does it top out at 88mph. What Beane does is put a premium on statistics, while other teams put a premium on tools... I'm sorry, Beane has EVERYTHING to do with Zito. Hudson I'll admit I don't know a lot about his past, but from the looks of his body type I'd say he wasn't the most impressive guy to most scouts. It's not surprising to me that he's on the A's.

Beane's game isn't all about slow, bad fielders taking pitches... It's about finding value where other teams aren't looking, and about exploiting the f'd up values of other teams... (for example, the SV statistic)...

**dce1228** · 10-07-2003, 07:34 PM

Re: The A\'s are terrible

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
YankeePride_YP said:
Beane can't take credit for his pitchers because he has nothing to do with the Big Three.

<hr /></blockquote>

So where did the big 3 come from? Was it a stroke of luck that Mulder/Zito/Hudson appeared on the A's? From what I understand, Mulder was a no-brainer, a 1st round pick and college pitcher just about everyone wanted... but Zito and Hudson. Zito had great stats in College, which got Beane's attention, but other teams didn't want him because of his fastball-- what does it top out at 88mph. What Beane does is put a premium on statistics, while other teams put a premium on tools... I'm sorry, Beane has EVERYTHING to do with Zito. Hudson I'll admit I don't know a lot about his past, but from the looks of his body type I'd say he wasn't the most impressive guy to most scouts. It's not surprising to me that he's on the A's.

Beane's game isn't all about slow, bad fielders taking pitches... It's about finding value where other teams aren't looking, and about exploiting the f'd up values of other teams... (for example, the SV statistic)...

The A's are terrible

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