"He will be a Hall of Famer someday..."

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  • Friar Fanatic
    Rookie
    • May 2012
    • 471

    #76
    Re: "He will be a Hall of Famer someday..."

    There really is no way to compare players from different ERAs in baseball. It's a tad easier in football, but in any sport though, it's almost impossible to do so effectively.

    Players in the Ruth era were a lot less talented than players today. If Babe Ruth or anyone from his era were to play today, they would more than likely not succeed. Just like any sport, over a significant period of time, players get bigger, faster, and stronger.

    In the early 1900's a pitcher who could throw even in the upper 90's seemed almost untouchable. Not only is the speed of pitching much higher, but the quality of pitching is increased as well. Breaking balls today have a much greater breaking action as well.

    While this does mean that someone like Ruth wouldn't be that great in 2012, you can't say that he isn't better than someone like Pujols. You have to judge how elite they are in their era.

    A good example of this would be lets say Justin Verlander. Does Verlander have more quality pitches and throw much harder than almost everyone in Ruth's era? Yes. Does this mean Verlander is the best pitcher ever? No.

    Just as how pitching has increased over the years, so has hitting. So someone like Pujols isn't using the same tools as someone like Ruth while facing much better pitching.

    Comment

    • jth1331
      MVP
      • Aug 2003
      • 1060

      #77
      Re: "He will be a Hall of Famer someday..."

      Babe Ruth wouldn't be able to hit today's pitching? Really?
      I'd argue that today, there is a case of more watered down pitching due to expansion.

      I guess I'll end with this though:
      7 National Championships
      43 Conference Championships
      152 All-Americans
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      #1 in weeks ranked top 5 in AP Poll
      #1 in wins/winning percentage since 1946
      Oklahoma Sooners, Boomer Sooner!

      Comment

      • ubernoob
        ****
        • Jul 2004
        • 15522

        #78
        Nobody ever seems to realize that today's training methods and coaches would be available to these players if they played today.



        Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
        bad

        Comment

        • Blzer
          Resident film pundit
          • Mar 2004
          • 42520

          #79
          Re: "He will be a Hall of Famer someday..."

          Originally posted by ubernoob
          Nobody ever seems to realize that today's training methods and coaches would be available to these players if they played today.
          And yet, baseball earns a defensive measure on both sides of the ball: hitters can only work with what pitchers offer them. As I asked earlier, do today's tools benefit pitchers or hitters more?
          Samsung PN60F8500 PDP / Anthem MRX 720 / Klipsch RC-62 II / Klipsch RF-82 II (x2) / Insignia NS-B2111 (x2) / SVS PC13-Ultra / SVS SB-2000 / Sony MDR-7506 Professional / Audio-Technica ATH-R70x / Sony PS3 & PS4 / DirecTV HR44-500 / DarbeeVision DVP-5000 / Panamax M5400-PM / Elgato HD60

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          • TheNumber35
            Just Bad at Everything
            • Jan 2012
            • 2708

            #80
            Re: "He will be a Hall of Famer someday..."

            Originally posted by Blzer
            And yet, baseball earns a defensive measure on both sides of the ball: hitters can only work with what pitchers offer them. As I asked earlier, do today's tools benefit pitchers or hitters more?
            In my opinion, I think they equally benefit hitters and pitchers. Pitchers can see what makes guys tick in the box and how to get them out, and hitters can see tendencies of pitchers, learn to adjust to their own shortcomings, etc.

            The point being made by many here, and I agree with it, is that some are ignoring the fact that if Ruth played today he would have all the benefits of modern day training and video study. And if Pujols played back then, he wouldn't.

            People can believe what they please, it's their right as humans, but I personally think its just plain ridiculous to claim Ruth or any of the old time boys we've mentioned couldn't hit or play in today's game.
            Check out my Houston Astros Dynasties:
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            Comment

            • Friar Fanatic
              Rookie
              • May 2012
              • 471

              #81
              Re: "He will be a Hall of Famer someday..."

              Originally posted by jth1331
              Babe Ruth wouldn't be able to hit today's pitching? Really?
              I'd argue that today, there is a case of more watered down pitching due to expansion.

              I guess I'll end with this though:
              Babe Ruth would have a really rough time hitting pitchers today simply because even some of the worst pitchers right now throw much harder than pitchers in Ruth's days. This does not take away from him though as no hitter/pitcher should be able to compete with people from a different era.

              To judge a player effectively, you must judge how elite they were in there era where people had the same training, and relatively the same physical attributes. It's unfair to say Ruth isn't as good as someone today because there is too much advancement.

              Comment

              • Friar Fanatic
                Rookie
                • May 2012
                • 471

                #82
                Re: "He will be a Hall of Famer someday..."

                Originally posted by ubernoob
                Nobody ever seems to realize that today's training methods and coaches would be available to these players if they played today.



                Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
                If Babe Ruth had the same training as everyone else, sure he would be great but that's not what has been being discussed. People are comparing the 1920 Babe Ruth to today's game.

                If Babe Ruth had the same training as everyone else today it's ignorant to think though that he would be even better than he was when he played. Ruth didn't have all the training tools and such, but the applies to all players.

                Babe Ruth would still be a hall of fame type player, but his numbers wouldn't have a large increase if there was an increase at all.

                Comment

                • snepp
                  We'll waste him too.
                  • Apr 2003
                  • 10007

                  #83
                  Re: "He will be a Hall of Famer someday..."

                  Nowhere did anyone say that his numbers would increase, or even imply that.
                  Member of The OS Baseball Rocket Scientists Association

                  Comment

                  • Friar Fanatic
                    Rookie
                    • May 2012
                    • 471

                    #84
                    Re: "He will be a Hall of Famer someday..."

                    Originally posted by snepp
                    Nowhere did anyone say that his numbers would increase, or even imply that.
                    Where did I say someone said that?
                    Last edited by Friar Fanatic; 05-15-2012, 01:15 AM.

                    Comment

                    • CMH
                      Making you famous
                      • Oct 2002
                      • 26203

                      #85
                      Originally posted by Friar Fanatic
                      Where did I say someone said that?
                      ? You just said it.


                      Sent from my mobile device.
                      "It may well be that we spectators, who are not divinely gifted as athletes, are the only ones able to truly see, articulate and animate the experience of the gift we are denied. And that those who receive and act out the gift of athletic genius must, perforce, be blind and dumb about it -- and not because blindness and dumbness are the price of the gift, but because they are its essence." - David Foster Wallace

                      "You'll not find more penny-wise/pound-foolish behavior than in Major League Baseball." - Rob Neyer

                      Comment

                      • jake44np
                        Post Like a Champion!
                        • Jul 2002
                        • 9563

                        #86
                        Re: "He will be a Hall of Famer someday..."

                        My choice Joey Votto,the guy is just clutch.
                        Do you realize he already is already 4th on the Reds list for hrs by a 1b?
                        With his 3 hr day on Sunday he now has 120 hrs.
                        ND Season Ticket Holder since '72.

                        Comment

                        • DieHardYankee26
                          BING BONG
                          • Feb 2008
                          • 10178

                          #87
                          Re: "He will be a Hall of Famer someday..."

                          Originally posted by jake44np
                          My choice Joey Votto,the guy is just clutch.
                          Do you realize he already is already 4th on the Reds list for hrs by a 1b?
                          With his 3 hr day on Sunday he now has 120 hrs.
                          Wow! With as long as the Reds have been around, that truly is remarkable.
                          Originally posted by G Perico
                          If I ain't got it, then I gotta take it
                          I can't hide who I am, baby I'm a gangster
                          In the Rolls Royce, steppin' on a mink rug
                          The clique just a gang of bosses that linked up

                          Comment

                          • DrJones
                            All Star
                            • Mar 2003
                            • 9109

                            #88
                            Re: "He will be a Hall of Famer someday..."

                            Originally posted by jake44np
                            My choice Joey Votto,the guy is just clutch.
                            Do you realize he already is already 4th on the Reds list for hrs by a 1b?
                            With his 3 hr day on Sunday he now has 120 hrs.
                            As much as I'd like to see another Canadian in the HoF, Votto's enshrinement would be pretty unlikely. Given the offensive standards for 1st basemen, he'd probably need 600HR, meaning an average of 40 homers over the next dozen seasons. At age 28, Votto's only hit over 30 HR once.
                            Originally posted by Thrash13
                            Dr. Jones was right in stating that. We should have believed him.
                            Originally posted by slickdtc
                            DrJones brings the stinky cheese is what we've all learned from this debacle.
                            Originally posted by Kipnis22
                            yes your fantasy world when your proven wrong about 95% of your post

                            Comment

                            • Friar Fanatic
                              Rookie
                              • May 2012
                              • 471

                              #89
                              Re: "He will be a Hall of Famer someday..."

                              Originally posted by Friar Fanatic
                              If Babe Ruth had the same training as everyone else, sure he would be great but that's not what has been being discussed. People are comparing the 1920 Babe Ruth to today's game.

                              If Babe Ruth had the same training as everyone else today it's ignorant to think though that he would be even better than he was when he played. Ruth didn't have all the training tools and such, but the applies to all players.

                              Babe Ruth would still be a hall of fame type player, but his numbers wouldn't have a large increase if there was an increase at all.
                              Originally posted by snepp
                              Nowhere did anyone say that his numbers would increase, or even imply that.

                              Originally posted by CMH
                              ? You just said it.


                              Sent from my mobile device.
                              I never said anyone said "his numbers would increase"

                              Comment

                              • DieHardYankee26
                                BING BONG
                                • Feb 2008
                                • 10178

                                #90
                                Re: "He will be a Hall of Famer someday..."

                                Originally posted by Friar Fanatic
                                I never said anyone said "his numbers would increase"
                                I think snepp originally said that no one said that because the point was irrelevant to begin with. As in no one was saying that his numbers would increase, so it didn't need to be said. No one was arguing that.
                                Originally posted by G Perico
                                If I ain't got it, then I gotta take it
                                I can't hide who I am, baby I'm a gangster
                                In the Rolls Royce, steppin' on a mink rug
                                The clique just a gang of bosses that linked up

                                Comment

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