Oswalt signs with the Rangers!!!

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  • bkrich83
    Has Been
    • Jul 2002
    • 71582

    #31
    Re: Oswalt signs with the Rangers!!!

    If Holland is your #2, you're in trouble. He's all sorts of mediocre. Yes he got hot for the playoffs, and maybe he's one of those guys who can turn it on for the postseason.

    But he was mediocre at best most of last year, and it's more of the same this year.
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    • Perfect Zero
      1B, OF
      • Jun 2005
      • 4012

      #32
      Re: Oswalt signs with the Rangers!!!

      Originally posted by bkrich83
      If Holland is your #2, you're in trouble. He's all sorts of mediocre. Yes he got hot for the playoffs, and maybe he's one of those guys who can turn it on for the postseason.

      But he was mediocre at best most of last year, and it's more of the same this year.
      So when Mike Trout burns out this year, he'll be a bust too? If 16-5 with 162 strikeouts, four complete game shoutouts and an ERA+ of 112 is mediocre, I'll take a mediocre player as my second man.

      EDIT: At what part of your post did you mention Oswalt?
      Last edited by Perfect Zero; 06-01-2012, 11:39 AM.
      Rangers - Cowboys - Aggies - Stars - Mavericks

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      • Scott
        Your Go-to TV Expert
        • Jul 2002
        • 20032

        #33
        Re: Oswalt signs with the Rangers!!!

        Originally posted by Perfect Zero
        I expect this type of thinking from bandwagon fans. Holland is lights out when he's on top of his game. Yeah he does have hiccups, but so many people forget how dominating he was during the playoffs last year. Maybe he made up some sort of "veteran presence" to get him though that series.

        This rotation is young and is getting better by the series. Darvish is pitching like the pro he is and is going to be, if not already, the Ace of the Staff for the next five years. Holland is shaping up to be a good number two guy. Lewis is on his last legs but is holding the fort down during his outings for the most part (I do not expect him to be back next year). Harrison is a good back of the rotation option, and Feliz if healthy should become a TORP in due time. Oswalt is 32 on the downslope of his career and is not going to be a Ranger for long.

        I was hoping that by the end of the season, the Rangers could be in contention for people like Zach Greinke or Cole Hamels. Good thing we're blowing the money on one of Ryan's lackeys though and pushing young kids back...
        The only reason I mention that about Holland is that he's struggling a bit, a bullpen stint would be good for him IMO.
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        • jth1331
          MVP
          • Aug 2003
          • 1060

          #34
          Re: Oswalt signs with the Rangers!!!

          Originally posted by Perfect Zero
          So when Mike Trout burns out this year, he'll be a bust too? If 16-5 with 162 strikeouts, four complete game shoutouts and an ERA+ of 112 is mediocre, I'll take a mediocre player as my second man.

          EDIT: At what part of your post did you mention Oswalt?
          Because you keep on mentioning in this thread how Holland is the **** basically.
          First off, a win-loss record is ridiculous to point out. Felix Hernandez was what 13-13 a couple years back?
          162 strikeouts, yeah that is mediocre. His WHIP was 1.35, ERA just under 4. He pitched terrible in the ALCS by the way last year. Yes, he is young, but I think you are overrating Holland.

          Like I said before, I think you are entirely too harsh on Oswalt. Oswalt never in his career posted a WHIP as high as Holland did last year. It comes down to his health, and I'd be willing to believe he can be healthy, and he is not ancient, he is 34 here. He has a few years if he can avoid the injuries.
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          • Heroesandvillains
            MVP
            • May 2009
            • 5974

            #35
            Re: Oswalt signs with the Rangers!!!

            Originally posted by Perfect Zero
            I expect this type of thinking from bandwagon fans. Holland is lights out when he's on top of his game. Yeah he does have hiccups, but so many people forget how dominating he was during the playoffs last year. Maybe he made up some sort of "veteran presence" to get him though that series.

            This rotation is young and is getting better by the series. Darvish is pitching like the pro he is and is going to be, if not already, the Ace of the Staff for the next five years. Holland is shaping up to be a good number two guy. Lewis is on his last legs but is holding the fort down during his outings for the most part (I do not expect him to be back next year). Harrison is a good back of the rotation option, and Feliz if healthy should become a TORP in due time. Oswalt is 32 on the downslope of his career and is not going to be a Ranger for long.

            I was hoping that by the end of the season, the Rangers could be in contention for people like Zach Greinke or Cole Hamels. Good thing we're blowing the money on one of Ryan's lackeys though and pushing young kids back...
            Holland is shaping up to be the number 2 this year, in your eyes, correct? And as a Rangers fan, that's suitable to you?

            But...going into 13, he'd ideally become your number 3 after a FA signing?

            I'm not offering my opinion one way or the other at the moment, by the way. Just trying to see if I understand what you are saying.

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            • JBH3
              Marvel's Finest
              • Jan 2007
              • 13506

              #36
              Re: Oswalt signs with the Rangers!!!

              Originally posted by jth1331
              Because you keep on mentioning in this thread how Holland is the **** basically.
              First off, a win-loss record is ridiculous to point out. Felix Hernandez was what 13-13 a couple years back?
              162 strikeouts, yeah that is mediocre. His WHIP was 1.35, ERA just under 4. He pitched terrible in the ALCS by the way last year. Yes, he is young, but I think you are overrating Holland.

              Like I said before, I think you are entirely too harsh on Oswalt. Oswalt never in his career posted a WHIP as high as Holland did last year. It comes down to his health, and I'd be willing to believe he can be healthy, and he is not ancient, he is 34 here. He has a few years if he can avoid the injuries.
              In 2011 away from Arlington Derek Holland posted:

              IP: 111.2
              W-L: 8-3
              3 CG Shutouts
              91 Ks
              33 BBs
              and a WHIP of 1.191

              His WHIP at home was 1.564. He also only struck out 71 at home, while walking one more batter than he did on the road in fewer innings. Holland surrendered 101 hits at home in 86.1 innings, compared to only 100 hits on the road in 111.2 innings.

              He threw 30+ more innings on the road, guess due to those 3 CG shutouts. So...given his 2011 road-split I would say he would be a solidified #2 starter on a good team. His home split definitely shows some games got away from him due to Arlington conditions.

              Oh and speaking of King Felix...how does he fair at the Ballpark in Arlington?

              Career: 16 starts, 5-8, 4.35 ERA, 1.438 WHIP, 80:38, 102 hits in 97.1 innings.

              Go easy...
              Last edited by JBH3; 06-01-2012, 07:38 PM.
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              • utexas
                Greatness
                • Jan 2003
                • 4868

                #37
                Originally posted by Perfect Zero
                I expect this type of thinking from bandwagon fans. .
                Name calling?? Been a Ranger fan 35 years been to too many games...

                Holland is struggling, if you watch the games it's easy to see. He has been erratic his entire career,nut has major potential. All the more reason I like this move and wouldn't be surprised if we make another pitching move. We are trying to win now,we have to have that mentality.
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                • JBH3
                  Marvel's Finest
                  • Jan 2007
                  • 13506

                  #38
                  Re: Oswalt signs with the Rangers!!!

                  Originally posted by utexas
                  Name calling?? Been a Ranger fan 35 years been to too many games...

                  Holland is struggling, if you watch the games it's easy to see. He has been erratic his entire career,nut has major potential. All the more reason I like this move and wouldn't be surprised if we make another pitching move. We are trying to win now,we have to have that mentality.
                  If you watch the home games it is easy to see? Is that what you mean?

                  Because on the road Holland as a sparkling 2.84 ERA and 1.105 WHIP in 25.1 innings; record of 2-1.

                  So what we seem to have here is a case of misunderstanding? Because no one wants to notice that Holland is night/day in his hm/away split, and everyone is just quick to condemn him because of his 8 earned runs in his last home start.
                  Originally posted by Edmund Burke
                  All that is needed for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing.

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                  • utexas
                    Greatness
                    • Jan 2003
                    • 4868

                    #39
                    In order to be a world series contending #2 pitcher he needs to be more consistent period. Home/away is a convenient excuse for being mediocre. I trust washington,Daniels and Ryan. obviously they felt like adding Oswalt was a must. I'm not trying to bash Holland. I love the fact that we signed him for a very reasonable deal.my point is Feliz's injury isn't the only thing that factored into the decision to sign Oswalt.
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                    • bkrich83
                      Has Been
                      • Jul 2002
                      • 71582

                      #40
                      Re: Oswalt signs with the Rangers!!!

                      Originally posted by Perfect Zero
                      So when Mike Trout burns out this year, he'll be a bust too? If 16-5 with 162 strikeouts, four complete game shoutouts and an ERA+ of 112 is mediocre, I'll take a mediocre player as my second man.

                      EDIT: At what part of your post did you mention Oswalt?
                      He was 16-5 because he got more run support than anyone in the free world. I think it was like 9 runs a start.

                      Not sure what Trout has to do with this, but Holland was mediocre last year and he's been less than that this year. If that's what you want in your #2 guy, more power to you.
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                      • bkrich83
                        Has Been
                        • Jul 2002
                        • 71582

                        #41
                        Re: Oswalt signs with the Rangers!!!

                        Originally posted by Perfect Zero
                        I expect this type of thinking from bandwagon fans....
                        I guarantee you UTEXAS has seen as many or more Ranger games than anyone here. He's no bandwagon fan.
                        Tracking my NCAA Coach Career

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                        • JBH3
                          Marvel's Finest
                          • Jan 2007
                          • 13506

                          #42
                          Re: Oswalt signs with the Rangers!!!

                          Originally posted by bkrich83
                          He was 16-5 because he got more run support than anyone in the free world. I think it was like 9 runs a start.

                          Not sure what Trout has to do with this, but Holland was mediocre last year and he's been less than that this year. If that's what you want in your #2 guy, more power to you.
                          Again...you're wrong. He was stellar away from Arlington. He may have had a few mediocre, a few horrible, and a few great starts at Arlinton but his home split bears out a mediocre line. Only way to do your due diligenece is factor in opponent in his home starts, but we can just say (Like Felix Hernandez) that the Ballpark in Arlington is an unkind place for Derek Holland.

                          He was great on the road last year, this year, and if he left Texas for good he would probably be an ace on another staff.
                          Last edited by JBH3; 06-03-2012, 10:51 AM.
                          Originally posted by Edmund Burke
                          All that is needed for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing.

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                          • bkrich83
                            Has Been
                            • Jul 2002
                            • 71582

                            #43
                            Originally posted by JBH3
                            Again...you're wrong. He was stellar away from Arlington. He may have had a few mediocre, a few horrible, and a few great starts at Arlinton but his home split bears out a mediocre line. Only way to do your due diligenece is factor in opponent in his home starts.

                            He was great on the road last year, this year, and if he left Texas for good he would probably be an ace on another staff.
                            I simply disagree. Given your post history if you believe my opinion is "wrong" I am more than ok with that.
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                            • JBH3
                              Marvel's Finest
                              • Jan 2007
                              • 13506

                              #44
                              Re: Oswalt signs with the Rangers!!!

                              Originally posted by bkrich83
                              I simply disagree. Given your post history if you believe my opinion is "wrong" I am more than ok with that.
                              Agree to disagree. :wink:
                              Originally posted by Edmund Burke
                              All that is needed for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing.

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                              • utexas
                                Greatness
                                • Jan 2003
                                • 4868

                                #45
                                Originally posted by bkrich83
                                I guarantee you UTEXAS has seen as many or more Ranger games than anyone here. He's no bandwagon fan.
                                bkrich man it's been a minute...
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