Pirate fans: Bucs will still have many options

[rj9949]

Re: Pirate fans: Bucs will still have many options

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
TheTruth916 said:
I would rather have Kendall cause he has been more consistent then Roman.

Roman has Questions marks coming for the AL. You don't know what he can do in the NL.

Where you know what u are getting in Kendall.

I like the deal its good.

To say Kendall is defensively worse then Hernandez is lying to themselves cause they both have a career Catching Fielding percentage of .988




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There is alot more to being a defensive catcher than fielding percentage.

[TheTruth916]

Re: Pirate fans: Bucs will still have many options

ok then sorry. Here are career stats.

Jason Kendall-30 yrs. Old

GP- 1059
GS- 1030
INN- 9024.1
TC- 7246
PO- 6637
A- 523
E- 86
DP-86
FPCT- .988
PB- 65
SB- 654
CS- 287
CS%- .305
CERA- 4.52


Ramon Hernandez- 27 yrs Old

GP- 591
GS- 542
Inn- 4808.2
TC- 3885
PO- 3598
A- 242
E- 45
DP- 48
FPCT- .988
PB- 27
SB- 316
CS- 148
CS%- .319
CERA- 3.83


I would still go with Kendall. He is a proven catcher and hitter and has played in the NL. Ramon has never played in the NL so how would you know if he can make the switch and be consistent? You can't so what the Padres are you doing is getting a catcher that they know and what they are getting out of him.

[TheTruth916]

Re: Pirate fans: Bucs will still have many options

ok then sorry. Here are career stats.

Jason Kendall-30 yrs. Old

GP- 1059
GS- 1030
INN- 9024.1
TC- 7246
PO- 6637
A- 523
E- 86
DP-86
FPCT- .988
PB- 65
SB- 654
CS- 287
CS%- .305
CERA- 4.52


Ramon Hernandez- 27 yrs Old

GP- 591
GS- 542
Inn- 4808.2
TC- 3885
PO- 3598
A- 242
E- 45
DP- 48
FPCT- .988
PB- 27
SB- 316
CS- 148
CS%- .319
CERA- 3.83


I would still go with Kendall. He is a proven catcher and hitter and has played in the NL. Ramon has never played in the NL so how would you know if he can make the switch and be consistent? You can't so what the Padres are you doing is getting a catcher that they know and what they are getting out of him.

[TheTruth916]

Re: Pirate fans: Bucs will still have many options

ok then sorry. Here are career stats.

Jason Kendall-30 yrs. Old

GP- 1059
GS- 1030
INN- 9024.1
TC- 7246
PO- 6637
A- 523
E- 86
DP-86
FPCT- .988
PB- 65
SB- 654
CS- 287
CS%- .305
CERA- 4.52


Ramon Hernandez- 27 yrs Old

GP- 591
GS- 542
Inn- 4808.2
TC- 3885
PO- 3598
A- 242
E- 45
DP- 48
FPCT- .988
PB- 27
SB- 316
CS- 148
CS%- .319
CERA- 3.83


I would still go with Kendall. He is a proven catcher and hitter and has played in the NL. Ramon has never played in the NL so how would you know if he can make the switch and be consistent? You can't so what the Padres are you doing is getting a catcher that they know and what they are getting out of him.

[Karlos05]

Re: Pirate fans: Bucs will still have many options

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
TheTruth916 said:
I would rather have Kendall cause he has been more consistent then Roman.

Roman has Questions marks coming for the AL. You don't know what he can do in the NL.

Where you know what u are getting in Kendall.

I like the deal its good.

To say Kendall is defensively worse then Hernandez is lying to themselves cause they both have a career Catching Fielding percentage of .988


<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

If Kendall ever learns how to block the plate then we can start to discuss better defensive catchers untill then Hernandez all the way

[Karlos05]

Re: Pirate fans: Bucs will still have many options

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
TheTruth916 said:
I would rather have Kendall cause he has been more consistent then Roman.

Roman has Questions marks coming for the AL. You don't know what he can do in the NL.

Where you know what u are getting in Kendall.

I like the deal its good.

To say Kendall is defensively worse then Hernandez is lying to themselves cause they both have a career Catching Fielding percentage of .988


<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

If Kendall ever learns how to block the plate then we can start to discuss better defensive catchers untill then Hernandez all the way

[Karlos05]

Re: Pirate fans: Bucs will still have many options

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
TheTruth916 said:
I would rather have Kendall cause he has been more consistent then Roman.

Roman has Questions marks coming for the AL. You don't know what he can do in the NL.

Where you know what u are getting in Kendall.

I like the deal its good.

To say Kendall is defensively worse then Hernandez is lying to themselves cause they both have a career Catching Fielding percentage of .988


<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

If Kendall ever learns how to block the plate then we can start to discuss better defensive catchers untill then Hernandez all the way

[samjjones]

Re: Pirate fans: Bucs will still have many options

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
LetsGoPitt said:
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
samjjones said:
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
rsox said:
If the Pirates take Jeff Cirillo and Ramon Hernandez's contracts then i don't think the Padres should ask them to pay any of Kendall's contract,
i don't like this deal for the Padres, Hernandez is a good Catcher and is 2 years younger than Kendall,
Kendall has had to battle injury's and inconsistency over the past few years, the Padres would be making a mistake if they make this trade.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

You would honestly rather have Ramon Hernandez than Jason Kendall!?!??!?!?!?!

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
So would I. I don't think there is a catcher in baseball worse defensively than Kendall. I conservatively estimate the Bucs lost 5-10 games last year because of him.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

And what evidence points to that? The Pirates have been lousy because they have a horrendous pitching staff and horrible team OPS. With Sanders and Giles gone, Kendall is their only legitimate offensive player. Ramon Hernandez is a slightly better than average catcher, both with the stick and the glove. Kendall is a proven .290+ hitting catcher who gets on base. Does he have a bad contract? Yes, but from a purely baseball standpoint, I can't believe that anybody would prefer Hernandez to Kendall.

[samjjones]

Re: Pirate fans: Bucs will still have many options

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
LetsGoPitt said:
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
samjjones said:
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
rsox said:
If the Pirates take Jeff Cirillo and Ramon Hernandez's contracts then i don't think the Padres should ask them to pay any of Kendall's contract,
i don't like this deal for the Padres, Hernandez is a good Catcher and is 2 years younger than Kendall,
Kendall has had to battle injury's and inconsistency over the past few years, the Padres would be making a mistake if they make this trade.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

You would honestly rather have Ramon Hernandez than Jason Kendall!?!??!?!?!?!

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
So would I. I don't think there is a catcher in baseball worse defensively than Kendall. I conservatively estimate the Bucs lost 5-10 games last year because of him.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

And what evidence points to that? The Pirates have been lousy because they have a horrendous pitching staff and horrible team OPS. With Sanders and Giles gone, Kendall is their only legitimate offensive player. Ramon Hernandez is a slightly better than average catcher, both with the stick and the glove. Kendall is a proven .290+ hitting catcher who gets on base. Does he have a bad contract? Yes, but from a purely baseball standpoint, I can't believe that anybody would prefer Hernandez to Kendall.

[samjjones]

Re: Pirate fans: Bucs will still have many options

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
LetsGoPitt said:
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
samjjones said:
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
rsox said:
If the Pirates take Jeff Cirillo and Ramon Hernandez's contracts then i don't think the Padres should ask them to pay any of Kendall's contract,
i don't like this deal for the Padres, Hernandez is a good Catcher and is 2 years younger than Kendall,
Kendall has had to battle injury's and inconsistency over the past few years, the Padres would be making a mistake if they make this trade.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

You would honestly rather have Ramon Hernandez than Jason Kendall!?!??!?!?!?!

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
So would I. I don't think there is a catcher in baseball worse defensively than Kendall. I conservatively estimate the Bucs lost 5-10 games last year because of him.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

And what evidence points to that? The Pirates have been lousy because they have a horrendous pitching staff and horrible team OPS. With Sanders and Giles gone, Kendall is their only legitimate offensive player. Ramon Hernandez is a slightly better than average catcher, both with the stick and the glove. Kendall is a proven .290+ hitting catcher who gets on base. Does he have a bad contract? Yes, but from a purely baseball standpoint, I can't believe that anybody would prefer Hernandez to Kendall.

[griffy97]

Re: Pirate fans: Bucs will still have many options

Jumped into this thread too late, since the Kendall deal appears dead, but:

This deal, had the Padres agreed to it, would've practically vindicated Dave Littlefield in my mind. First of all, we would've gotten out from under Kendall's contract. Secondly, we would've gained two starting players in Cirillo, which is bound to be better than he was in Seattle, and Ramon Hernandez, which I also prefer over Kendall. The money for 2004 and 2005 was slightly higher, but those final two years would've been wiped off the books. I still see this deal being re-visited, with the Bucs kicking in some cash (maybe $7-10 mil). OR, if the Padres are so concerned about acquiring pitching, we could always deal them Benson.

The thing is: the Padres made the Cirillo deal with one thing in mind - sending him to Pittsburgh. The Padres don't want or need Cirillo. What other team is going to deal for him? The only teams that mutually benefit are SD-PGH. The Bucs can definitely use Cirillo, even with his price tag. The Padres covet Kendall in the worst way. I think this is a ploy to get the Bucs to ante up some dough, and it'll probably work. Don't be surprised if this still gets done somehow.

[griffy97]

Re: Pirate fans: Bucs will still have many options

Jumped into this thread too late, since the Kendall deal appears dead, but:

This deal, had the Padres agreed to it, would've practically vindicated Dave Littlefield in my mind. First of all, we would've gotten out from under Kendall's contract. Secondly, we would've gained two starting players in Cirillo, which is bound to be better than he was in Seattle, and Ramon Hernandez, which I also prefer over Kendall. The money for 2004 and 2005 was slightly higher, but those final two years would've been wiped off the books. I still see this deal being re-visited, with the Bucs kicking in some cash (maybe $7-10 mil). OR, if the Padres are so concerned about acquiring pitching, we could always deal them Benson.

The thing is: the Padres made the Cirillo deal with one thing in mind - sending him to Pittsburgh. The Padres don't want or need Cirillo. What other team is going to deal for him? The only teams that mutually benefit are SD-PGH. The Bucs can definitely use Cirillo, even with his price tag. The Padres covet Kendall in the worst way. I think this is a ploy to get the Bucs to ante up some dough, and it'll probably work. Don't be surprised if this still gets done somehow.

[griffy97]

Re: Pirate fans: Bucs will still have many options

Jumped into this thread too late, since the Kendall deal appears dead, but:

This deal, had the Padres agreed to it, would've practically vindicated Dave Littlefield in my mind. First of all, we would've gotten out from under Kendall's contract. Secondly, we would've gained two starting players in Cirillo, which is bound to be better than he was in Seattle, and Ramon Hernandez, which I also prefer over Kendall. The money for 2004 and 2005 was slightly higher, but those final two years would've been wiped off the books. I still see this deal being re-visited, with the Bucs kicking in some cash (maybe $7-10 mil). OR, if the Padres are so concerned about acquiring pitching, we could always deal them Benson.

The thing is: the Padres made the Cirillo deal with one thing in mind - sending him to Pittsburgh. The Padres don't want or need Cirillo. What other team is going to deal for him? The only teams that mutually benefit are SD-PGH. The Bucs can definitely use Cirillo, even with his price tag. The Padres covet Kendall in the worst way. I think this is a ploy to get the Bucs to ante up some dough, and it'll probably work. Don't be surprised if this still gets done somehow.

[Karlos05]

Re: Pirate fans: Bucs will still have many options

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
griffy97 said:

The thing is: the Padres made the Cirillo deal with one thing in mind - sending him to Pittsburgh. The Padres don't want or need Cirillo. What other team is going to deal for him? The only teams that mutually benefit are SD-PGH. The Bucs can definitely use Cirillo, even with his price tag. The Padres covet Kendall in the worst way. I think this is a ploy to get the Bucs to ante up some dough, and it'll probably work. Don't be surprised if this still gets done somehow.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Your right the Padres did acquire Cirillo with the intention of passing him on to the Bucs for Kendall. If this deal was to be done as is, straight up Kendall for Cirillo, and Hernandez the Bucs will probably get the better end of the deal by freeing up all of Kendall's 42 million dollar contract.

But with the Padres having Cirillo and not having anything to do with him this deal will be alive again before the end of spring training. My thoughts are that the Pirates are going to have to kick in at least 10 mil to get it through. But, if the Pirates play their cards right they may be able to get Xavier Nady out of the deal. He is the odd man out in the San Diego outfield with the signing of Jay Payton, and the Pirates are still cruising for a right fielder

On another note rumors are that the Pirates and Expos are still pursuing Urbina, and they may offer him a contract soon. The other person talking to the Pirates it Travis Lee, I think that would be a great signing. Put Lee at first and let Craig Wilson play in right. Sign Lee to a 2 year deal because Carlos Rivera sure isn't ready for the starting job.

[Karlos05]

Re: Pirate fans: Bucs will still have many options

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
griffy97 said:

The thing is: the Padres made the Cirillo deal with one thing in mind - sending him to Pittsburgh. The Padres don't want or need Cirillo. What other team is going to deal for him? The only teams that mutually benefit are SD-PGH. The Bucs can definitely use Cirillo, even with his price tag. The Padres covet Kendall in the worst way. I think this is a ploy to get the Bucs to ante up some dough, and it'll probably work. Don't be surprised if this still gets done somehow.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Your right the Padres did acquire Cirillo with the intention of passing him on to the Bucs for Kendall. If this deal was to be done as is, straight up Kendall for Cirillo, and Hernandez the Bucs will probably get the better end of the deal by freeing up all of Kendall's 42 million dollar contract.

But with the Padres having Cirillo and not having anything to do with him this deal will be alive again before the end of spring training. My thoughts are that the Pirates are going to have to kick in at least 10 mil to get it through. But, if the Pirates play their cards right they may be able to get Xavier Nady out of the deal. He is the odd man out in the San Diego outfield with the signing of Jay Payton, and the Pirates are still cruising for a right fielder

On another note rumors are that the Pirates and Expos are still pursuing Urbina, and they may offer him a contract soon. The other person talking to the Pirates it Travis Lee, I think that would be a great signing. Put Lee at first and let Craig Wilson play in right. Sign Lee to a 2 year deal because Carlos Rivera sure isn't ready for the starting job.