What is the most overrated record in MLB?

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  • Lex
    Banned
    • Jun 2003
    • 560

    #91
    Re: What is the most overrated record in MLB?

    </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
    Not really. You don't hype up players that have already proven their greatness. You hype up players who are expected to achieve greatness. That, to me, is the difference between the hype I'm talking about and the hype you are talking about.
    I just don't see how you can hype a player or his records when he's been out of the game for years.
    He's talked about alot because he was a great player, that's not hype. That's recognition.

    <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

    One thing to consider is who has been driving such discussion. For example, did you ever see the movie 61*? Do you remember the scenes where the sports writers and Ford Fricke were meeting about how to treat the record Maris would eventually break? Do you remember the kind of reverance for Ruth that existed that compelled such bias? If for decades there have been members of the press pushing certain records in the effort of demonstrating the greatness of Joe D, I think that could easily be considered over-hyped. I agree that he was great. I also dont think he needs a trumped up record as proof. If the media were to hype one of his records it should have been his HR:K.

    Again, I really do think the 56 game hitting streak is overhyped when you really think about it. Lets assume Joe D had 92 hits during his streak ( I think he hit aound .410*56*4 AB/gm). Lets also assume that Tony Gwynn over 56 games at one time had 100 hits. Does it really matter how the hits were distributed; does it really matter that Joe D's hits were spread out over each game? The 56 game hitting streak is interesting in the sense that its an anomaly but I dont think its terribly important in a bottom line sense.

    Comment

    • dce1228
      MVP
      • Mar 2003
      • 1016

      #92
      Re: What is the most overrated record in MLB?

      </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
      </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
      Strikeouts by a batter in a season. Bobby Bonds has the record with 189, but also hit .300 that season with 48 SBs, 200 hits, 26 HRs and 77 walks -- hardly a bad year.

      Too that effect, strikeouts by a pitcher are overrated when compared to ERA and whip.

      <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

      i disagree.. ERA and whip can both be affected by how rangy a defense is behind a player.. while strikeouts is only the pitcher vs the batter

      <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

      The most succesful pitchers know how to use the defenders in the field behind them. Any one of them would take a first pitch pop-up over a six pitch strikeout any day.

      Comment

      • dce1228
        MVP
        • Mar 2003
        • 1016

        #93
        Re: What is the most overrated record in MLB?

        </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
        </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
        Strikeouts by a batter in a season. Bobby Bonds has the record with 189, but also hit .300 that season with 48 SBs, 200 hits, 26 HRs and 77 walks -- hardly a bad year.

        Too that effect, strikeouts by a pitcher are overrated when compared to ERA and whip.

        <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

        i disagree.. ERA and whip can both be affected by how rangy a defense is behind a player.. while strikeouts is only the pitcher vs the batter

        <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

        The most succesful pitchers know how to use the defenders in the field behind them. Any one of them would take a first pitch pop-up over a six pitch strikeout any day.

        Comment

        • dce1228
          MVP
          • Mar 2003
          • 1016

          #94
          Re: What is the most overrated record in MLB?

          </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
          </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
          Strikeouts by a batter in a season. Bobby Bonds has the record with 189, but also hit .300 that season with 48 SBs, 200 hits, 26 HRs and 77 walks -- hardly a bad year.

          Too that effect, strikeouts by a pitcher are overrated when compared to ERA and whip.

          <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

          i disagree.. ERA and whip can both be affected by how rangy a defense is behind a player.. while strikeouts is only the pitcher vs the batter

          <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

          The most succesful pitchers know how to use the defenders in the field behind them. Any one of them would take a first pitch pop-up over a six pitch strikeout any day.

          Comment

          • pol
            All Star
            • Nov 2002
            • 2424

            #95
            Re: What is the most overrated record in MLB?

            </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
            </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
            </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
            Strikeouts by a batter in a season. Bobby Bonds has the record with 189, but also hit .300 that season with 48 SBs, 200 hits, 26 HRs and 77 walks -- hardly a bad year.

            Too that effect, strikeouts by a pitcher are overrated when compared to ERA and whip.

            <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

            i disagree.. ERA and whip can both be affected by how rangy a defense is behind a player.. while strikeouts is only the pitcher vs the batter

            <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

            The most succesful pitchers know how to use the defenders in the field behind them. Any one of them would take a first pitch pop-up over a six pitch strikeout any day.

            <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

            but the numbers dont show which pitchers can do that and which pitchers can not...


            look at greg maddux. he has--for the most part--given up the same amount of homeruns, and walks.. and stuck out about the same amount each year...

            while.. his hits against numbers vary by as many as 50-60 hits per year..

            is he that streaky, or does the luck of the bounce determine if a hit is a hit..

            the only stats that determine a pitcher are homeruns, walks, and strikeouts because they are the only stats that are not affected by outside influences..

            Comment

            • pol
              All Star
              • Nov 2002
              • 2424

              #96
              Re: What is the most overrated record in MLB?

              </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
              </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
              </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
              Strikeouts by a batter in a season. Bobby Bonds has the record with 189, but also hit .300 that season with 48 SBs, 200 hits, 26 HRs and 77 walks -- hardly a bad year.

              Too that effect, strikeouts by a pitcher are overrated when compared to ERA and whip.

              <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

              i disagree.. ERA and whip can both be affected by how rangy a defense is behind a player.. while strikeouts is only the pitcher vs the batter

              <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

              The most succesful pitchers know how to use the defenders in the field behind them. Any one of them would take a first pitch pop-up over a six pitch strikeout any day.

              <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

              but the numbers dont show which pitchers can do that and which pitchers can not...


              look at greg maddux. he has--for the most part--given up the same amount of homeruns, and walks.. and stuck out about the same amount each year...

              while.. his hits against numbers vary by as many as 50-60 hits per year..

              is he that streaky, or does the luck of the bounce determine if a hit is a hit..

              the only stats that determine a pitcher are homeruns, walks, and strikeouts because they are the only stats that are not affected by outside influences..

              Comment

              • pol
                All Star
                • Nov 2002
                • 2424

                #97
                Re: What is the most overrated record in MLB?

                </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
                </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
                </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
                Strikeouts by a batter in a season. Bobby Bonds has the record with 189, but also hit .300 that season with 48 SBs, 200 hits, 26 HRs and 77 walks -- hardly a bad year.

                Too that effect, strikeouts by a pitcher are overrated when compared to ERA and whip.

                <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

                i disagree.. ERA and whip can both be affected by how rangy a defense is behind a player.. while strikeouts is only the pitcher vs the batter

                <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

                The most succesful pitchers know how to use the defenders in the field behind them. Any one of them would take a first pitch pop-up over a six pitch strikeout any day.

                <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

                but the numbers dont show which pitchers can do that and which pitchers can not...


                look at greg maddux. he has--for the most part--given up the same amount of homeruns, and walks.. and stuck out about the same amount each year...

                while.. his hits against numbers vary by as many as 50-60 hits per year..

                is he that streaky, or does the luck of the bounce determine if a hit is a hit..

                the only stats that determine a pitcher are homeruns, walks, and strikeouts because they are the only stats that are not affected by outside influences..

                Comment

                • snepp
                  We'll waste him too.
                  • Apr 2003
                  • 10007

                  #98
                  Re: What is the most overrated record in MLB?

                  </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

                  but the numbers dont show which pitchers can do that and which pitchers can not...


                  look at greg maddux. he has--for the most part--given up the same amount of homeruns, and walks.. and stuck out about the same amount each year...

                  while.. his hits against numbers vary by as many as 50-60 hits per year..

                  is he that streaky, or does the luck of the bounce determine if a hit is a hit..

                  the only stats that determine a pitcher are homeruns, walks, and strikeouts because they are the only stats that are not affected by outside influences..

                  <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

                  Rob Neyer had a great article last year talking about what you are saying here. I may have to go look it up again.
                  Member of The OS Baseball Rocket Scientists Association

                  Comment

                  • snepp
                    We'll waste him too.
                    • Apr 2003
                    • 10007

                    #99
                    Re: What is the most overrated record in MLB?

                    </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

                    but the numbers dont show which pitchers can do that and which pitchers can not...


                    look at greg maddux. he has--for the most part--given up the same amount of homeruns, and walks.. and stuck out about the same amount each year...

                    while.. his hits against numbers vary by as many as 50-60 hits per year..

                    is he that streaky, or does the luck of the bounce determine if a hit is a hit..

                    the only stats that determine a pitcher are homeruns, walks, and strikeouts because they are the only stats that are not affected by outside influences..

                    <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

                    Rob Neyer had a great article last year talking about what you are saying here. I may have to go look it up again.
                    Member of The OS Baseball Rocket Scientists Association

                    Comment

                    • snepp
                      We'll waste him too.
                      • Apr 2003
                      • 10007

                      #100
                      Re: What is the most overrated record in MLB?

                      </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

                      but the numbers dont show which pitchers can do that and which pitchers can not...


                      look at greg maddux. he has--for the most part--given up the same amount of homeruns, and walks.. and stuck out about the same amount each year...

                      while.. his hits against numbers vary by as many as 50-60 hits per year..

                      is he that streaky, or does the luck of the bounce determine if a hit is a hit..

                      the only stats that determine a pitcher are homeruns, walks, and strikeouts because they are the only stats that are not affected by outside influences..

                      <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

                      Rob Neyer had a great article last year talking about what you are saying here. I may have to go look it up again.
                      Member of The OS Baseball Rocket Scientists Association

                      Comment

                      • pol
                        All Star
                        • Nov 2002
                        • 2424

                        #101
                        Re: What is the most overrated record in MLB?

                        the idea isnt mine.. it is also mentioned in moneyball.. neyer buys into the same methods.. what is it called sabermetrics or something? not sure.. anyways.. i agree with that.

                        Comment

                        • pol
                          All Star
                          • Nov 2002
                          • 2424

                          #102
                          Re: What is the most overrated record in MLB?

                          the idea isnt mine.. it is also mentioned in moneyball.. neyer buys into the same methods.. what is it called sabermetrics or something? not sure.. anyways.. i agree with that.

                          Comment

                          • pol
                            All Star
                            • Nov 2002
                            • 2424

                            #103
                            Re: What is the most overrated record in MLB?

                            the idea isnt mine.. it is also mentioned in moneyball.. neyer buys into the same methods.. what is it called sabermetrics or something? not sure.. anyways.. i agree with that.

                            Comment

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