We should kill baseball altogether, then bring it back in five years

[MagicUser]

Re: We should kill baseball altogether, then bring it back in five years

EROD-

What should we do with the career records of hundreds of pitchers who, over the course of baseball history, altered and doctored baseballs during games. Should spitballers be removed from the HoF?
What about the guys that trotted out to the mound with razor blades hidden in there gloves? Cheating is cheating is it not?

My point is that baseball players cheating does not come as a news flash to anybody. There is no need to write off today's baseball players as morally bankrupt when they are doing what baseball players have been doing for GENERATIONS in one form or another. The game is not broken. Those that are caught using steroids will be caught and punished, steroids testing in some form or another will be put in place, and then the players will buckle down and find new ways to get a leg up on the competition. Then "baseball purists" can go to complaining about how the games are to long, or how the mound should be raised, or how the DH should be banned, or the Wild Card playoff spot removed or whatever.

If you want to complain about anything you should complain about our society's "Winning is everything" mentality. Baseball is a business and in business you don't get "A"'s for effort or rewarded for doing the right thing. you get rewarded for results- and the only result that seems to matter is increasing revenue. Period.

[tbuck]

Re: We should kill baseball altogether, then bring it back in five years

Anybody can point a finger and say "he's on steroids". My question is, where's the proof? Where's the link between said player and steroids? This whole subject has gone way off track. Instead of focusing on the players that are ACTUALLY BEING IMPLICATED IN A CURRENT AND ONGOING INVESTIGATION, people would rather point the finger at every muscular ballplayer who has had success hitting homers. Sosa, McGwire......the list goes on. They became big, and hit a lot of homers, so they must be on the juice, right? Maybe, but to talk about it as though it were fact is irresponsible. Show me more than a picture. Until there is a link between that player and steroids, you're just stating an opinion, and one that was formed with nothing of substance behind it.

Androstene was available to anyone who wanted it at GNC and was not a banned substance in MLB when McGwire had his record-setting year, so is that cheating? No. The same thing goes for players using creatine. It's a supplement. It gives you an edge, but it's not illegal.

[tbuck]

Re: We should kill baseball altogether, then bring it back in five years

Anybody can point a finger and say "he's on steroids". My question is, where's the proof? Where's the link between said player and steroids? This whole subject has gone way off track. Instead of focusing on the players that are ACTUALLY BEING IMPLICATED IN A CURRENT AND ONGOING INVESTIGATION, people would rather point the finger at every muscular ballplayer who has had success hitting homers. Sosa, McGwire......the list goes on. They became big, and hit a lot of homers, so they must be on the juice, right? Maybe, but to talk about it as though it were fact is irresponsible. Show me more than a picture. Until there is a link between that player and steroids, you're just stating an opinion, and one that was formed with nothing of substance behind it.

Androstene was available to anyone who wanted it at GNC and was not a banned substance in MLB when McGwire had his record-setting year, so is that cheating? No. The same thing goes for players using creatine. It's a supplement. It gives you an edge, but it's not illegal.

[tbuck]

Re: We should kill baseball altogether, then bring it back in five years

Anybody can point a finger and say "he's on steroids". My question is, where's the proof? Where's the link between said player and steroids? This whole subject has gone way off track. Instead of focusing on the players that are ACTUALLY BEING IMPLICATED IN A CURRENT AND ONGOING INVESTIGATION, people would rather point the finger at every muscular ballplayer who has had success hitting homers. Sosa, McGwire......the list goes on. They became big, and hit a lot of homers, so they must be on the juice, right? Maybe, but to talk about it as though it were fact is irresponsible. Show me more than a picture. Until there is a link between that player and steroids, you're just stating an opinion, and one that was formed with nothing of substance behind it.

Androstene was available to anyone who wanted it at GNC and was not a banned substance in MLB when McGwire had his record-setting year, so is that cheating? No. The same thing goes for players using creatine. It's a supplement. It gives you an edge, but it's not illegal.

[SPTO]

Re: We should kill baseball altogether, then bring it back in five years

To those talking about cheating in the past. Let's face facts when pitchers were throwing spitballs and hiding razor blades etc etc. It was being done in the EARLY days of baseball when the game was not as organized and powerful as it is today. The spitball and other variations were banned in the early 20th century. You can't compare that era to now when players KNOW that they run the risk of career suicide if caught with steiroids.

Tbuck: I agree to some extent that it's starting to become a witchhunt now however McGwire was using a substance that for all intents and purposes was a quasi steiroid in that it does many of the same things that steiroids does to the body. Creatine is a grey area however what the heck do baseball players need with it. It's not like they're competing for weightlifting competitions. Some of the greatest ballplaers who ever lived weren't musclebound men who could tear the cover off the ball but they had longer careers and less injuries then the stars of today.

[SPTO]

Re: We should kill baseball altogether, then bring it back in five years

To those talking about cheating in the past. Let's face facts when pitchers were throwing spitballs and hiding razor blades etc etc. It was being done in the EARLY days of baseball when the game was not as organized and powerful as it is today. The spitball and other variations were banned in the early 20th century. You can't compare that era to now when players KNOW that they run the risk of career suicide if caught with steiroids.

Tbuck: I agree to some extent that it's starting to become a witchhunt now however McGwire was using a substance that for all intents and purposes was a quasi steiroid in that it does many of the same things that steiroids does to the body. Creatine is a grey area however what the heck do baseball players need with it. It's not like they're competing for weightlifting competitions. Some of the greatest ballplaers who ever lived weren't musclebound men who could tear the cover off the ball but they had longer careers and less injuries then the stars of today.

[SPTO]

Re: We should kill baseball altogether, then bring it back in five years

To those talking about cheating in the past. Let's face facts when pitchers were throwing spitballs and hiding razor blades etc etc. It was being done in the EARLY days of baseball when the game was not as organized and powerful as it is today. The spitball and other variations were banned in the early 20th century. You can't compare that era to now when players KNOW that they run the risk of career suicide if caught with steiroids.

Tbuck: I agree to some extent that it's starting to become a witchhunt now however McGwire was using a substance that for all intents and purposes was a quasi steiroid in that it does many of the same things that steiroids does to the body. Creatine is a grey area however what the heck do baseball players need with it. It's not like they're competing for weightlifting competitions. Some of the greatest ballplaers who ever lived weren't musclebound men who could tear the cover off the ball but they had longer careers and less injuries then the stars of today.

[MagicUser]

Re: We should kill baseball altogether, then bring it back in five years

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
SportsmanTO said:
To those talking about cheating in the past. Let's face facts when pitchers were throwing spitballs and hiding razor blades etc etc. It was being done in the EARLY days of baseball when the game was not as organized and powerful as it is today. The spitball and other variations were banned in the early 20th century. You can't compare that era to now when players KNOW that they run the risk of career suicide if caught with steiroids.


<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Spitballs may have been banned in the early 20th century, Gaylord Perry, by his own admission, threw a greased ball his entire career in the 60's and 70's, even though he was only caught once.

Look at Perry's accomplishments: All-Star Games (5): 1966, 1970, 1972, 1974, 1979; Cy Young 1972 and 1978. Perry was the first man to win the Cy Young in both leagues. And by his own admission, he was cheating all the way. He is in the Hall for his efforts.

[MagicUser]

Re: We should kill baseball altogether, then bring it back in five years

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
SportsmanTO said:
To those talking about cheating in the past. Let's face facts when pitchers were throwing spitballs and hiding razor blades etc etc. It was being done in the EARLY days of baseball when the game was not as organized and powerful as it is today. The spitball and other variations were banned in the early 20th century. You can't compare that era to now when players KNOW that they run the risk of career suicide if caught with steiroids.


<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Spitballs may have been banned in the early 20th century, Gaylord Perry, by his own admission, threw a greased ball his entire career in the 60's and 70's, even though he was only caught once.

Look at Perry's accomplishments: All-Star Games (5): 1966, 1970, 1972, 1974, 1979; Cy Young 1972 and 1978. Perry was the first man to win the Cy Young in both leagues. And by his own admission, he was cheating all the way. He is in the Hall for his efforts.

[MagicUser]

Re: We should kill baseball altogether, then bring it back in five years

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
SportsmanTO said:
To those talking about cheating in the past. Let's face facts when pitchers were throwing spitballs and hiding razor blades etc etc. It was being done in the EARLY days of baseball when the game was not as organized and powerful as it is today. The spitball and other variations were banned in the early 20th century. You can't compare that era to now when players KNOW that they run the risk of career suicide if caught with steiroids.


<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Spitballs may have been banned in the early 20th century, Gaylord Perry, by his own admission, threw a greased ball his entire career in the 60's and 70's, even though he was only caught once.

Look at Perry's accomplishments: All-Star Games (5): 1966, 1970, 1972, 1974, 1979; Cy Young 1972 and 1978. Perry was the first man to win the Cy Young in both leagues. And by his own admission, he was cheating all the way. He is in the Hall for his efforts.

[BigRed]

Re: We should kill baseball altogether, then bring it back in five years

What you guys fail to recognize is the type of offseason workout regimine that Sosa puts himself through.

I mean, come on! He's already stated that he starts working out sometime in January!

You all act like he gets big all at once or something.

[BigRed]

Re: We should kill baseball altogether, then bring it back in five years

What you guys fail to recognize is the type of offseason workout regimine that Sosa puts himself through.

I mean, come on! He's already stated that he starts working out sometime in January!

You all act like he gets big all at once or something.

[BigRed]

Re: We should kill baseball altogether, then bring it back in five years

What you guys fail to recognize is the type of offseason workout regimine that Sosa puts himself through.

I mean, come on! He's already stated that he starts working out sometime in January!

You all act like he gets big all at once or something.

[zappa55]

Re: We should kill baseball altogether, then bring it back in five years

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
MagicUser said:
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
SportsmanTO said:
To those talking about cheating in the past. Let's face facts when pitchers were throwing spitballs and hiding razor blades etc etc. It was being done in the EARLY days of baseball when the game was not as organized and powerful as it is today. The spitball and other variations were banned in the early 20th century. You can't compare that era to now when players KNOW that they run the risk of career suicide if caught with steiroids.


<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Spitballs may have been banned in the early 20th century, Gaylord Perry, by his own admission, threw a greased ball his entire career in the 60's and 70's, even though he was only caught once.

Look at Perry's accomplishments: All-Star Games (5): 1966, 1970, 1972, 1974, 1979; Cy Young 1972 and 1978. Perry was the first man to win the Cy Young in both leagues. And by his own admission, he was cheating all the way. He is in the Hall for his efforts.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

There is a big difference in spit balls and steroids. Spit balls can be compared to corked bats but not steroids. You only run the risk of getting caught and suspended throwing spitballs and using corked bats. Using steroids runs a serious risk to your health anyone heard of Lyle Alzedo. That is why steroids are more serious than other forms of cheating. It is not fair to expect other players to risk their health in order to be competitive.

[zappa55]

Re: We should kill baseball altogether, then bring it back in five years

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
MagicUser said:
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
SportsmanTO said:
To those talking about cheating in the past. Let's face facts when pitchers were throwing spitballs and hiding razor blades etc etc. It was being done in the EARLY days of baseball when the game was not as organized and powerful as it is today. The spitball and other variations were banned in the early 20th century. You can't compare that era to now when players KNOW that they run the risk of career suicide if caught with steiroids.


<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Spitballs may have been banned in the early 20th century, Gaylord Perry, by his own admission, threw a greased ball his entire career in the 60's and 70's, even though he was only caught once.

Look at Perry's accomplishments: All-Star Games (5): 1966, 1970, 1972, 1974, 1979; Cy Young 1972 and 1978. Perry was the first man to win the Cy Young in both leagues. And by his own admission, he was cheating all the way. He is in the Hall for his efforts.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

There is a big difference in spit balls and steroids. Spit balls can be compared to corked bats but not steroids. You only run the risk of getting caught and suspended throwing spitballs and using corked bats. Using steroids runs a serious risk to your health anyone heard of Lyle Alzedo. That is why steroids are more serious than other forms of cheating. It is not fair to expect other players to risk their health in order to be competitive.