Bunting against the Shift... Why don't more teams do it?

[strawberryshortcake]

Why don't more left handers bunt against the shift, especially extreme shifts? If leftys are struggling at the plate with the opposition setting up extreme shifts, wouldn't it make logically sense to drop a bunt? It's essentially a free base, a walk so to speak. I'm bringing this up because opposing teams are setting up extreme shifts on Brandon Moss (Oakland Athletics), and he's been completely struggling at the plate.

[Blzer]

Re: Bunting against the Shift... Why don't more teams do it?

You ain't telling me. I'm like you with this topic (though I promote shifts with my softball players, not as extreme as this but rather getting them to understand that the position does not require anything in particular... been doing this for about ten years now).

Although my greatest curiosity about bunting against the shift is whether or not it will change the defense. I personally just feel there are some teams who say: "For this guy, I'm willing for him to take away his possibility of an extra-base hit if he is going to try and get one past the pitcher/catcher for a hit."

The only thing we all have to keep in mind is the player still needs to successfully lay down a certain kind of bunt. Pitchers have enough trouble sacrificing anywhere within the 90° slice of the pie, and that's not even for them to attempt to reach first base. Now as a hitter, you have to make sure that bunt is hard enough toward the line (and fair, by the way) so neither the pitcher nor catcher have any opportunity to throw you out.

I honestly think some players might be better off playing pepper that way, because they probably can't control those bunts. But again, I'm certainly more interested in not why teams don't do it more often, but rather what another team would do against that change. Because IMO, they would only change if they recognize your strategy has a 100% success rate. If you fail on your own trying to bunt, they will have solidified their reason for shifting and always keep that.

[strawberryshortcake]

Re: Bunting against the Shift... Why don't more teams do it?

Valid points. In a sense do you want to take the potential of a homerun or multiple bases by a power hitter (Big Papi, etc.)?

However, ... strategically if extreme shifts are employed, you might consider it the perfect opportunity to play "small ball." Lefty successfully able to lay down a bunt, reach 1st with no outs in the inning. Second batter moves the runner over with a sacrifice bunt, one out with a runner in scoring position at 2nd.

Runner on 2nd with 1 out and you likely avoid any potential for a double play. You've got two chances to bring the runner home.

If you are in fact able to successfully reach 1st on a bunt against the extreme shift, you now change the focus of the defense the next go around. If more teams drop a bunt during shifts, I have a feeling opposing teams will stop shifting. Plus, successful bunts against the shift will likely move the defense back to normal. This benefits left hand hitters. Infield holes are now back to normal. Lefties are now back in their comfort zone so to speak.

In other words, I think the pros outweigh the cons if a lefty bunts during extreme shifts.

... not really, but sort of running the option in football. The more you do it, the league is bound to adjust and they have. I'm hoping bunting during these extreme shifts would put an end to them.

[daflyboys]

Re: Bunting against the Shift... Why don't more teams do it?

I don't think guys like Moss or Howard even know how to do it and even if they could execute, probably wouldn't get the ball past the level of the pitcher.

[Jr.]

Re: Bunting against the Shift... Why don't more teams do it?

I think it's funny that people think Major League hitters can't lay down a bunt. These guys practice it everyday in BP, and while I understand it's not the same, their hand-eye control is good enough to lay down an easy bunt toward 3rd base (Rizzo did it twice in a game earlier this season).

The only time I see guys even thinking about doing this are when they're in a big slump, or in a 1 or 2 run game and they can't tie it themselves. Otherwise, the guys that teams employ these overshifts against are looking to drive the ball and get themselves in scoring position or better.

I would imagine that any manager would take Ortiz/Texiera/Davis/etc laying down a bunt and getting a single if it meant there was no chance of them hitting a ball hard for an XBH or HR.

[BoomerHB52]

Re: Bunting against the Shift... Why don't more teams do it?

On top of my head that I can remember, I only saw that once.

Robbie Cano (still with the Yanks) vs Boston at Fenway last year. He laid down a perfectly executed bunt to 3B line and got to 2b if I'm not mistaken.

It looked more like a hit because the ball went hard and fast but I loved to see that. However, he never tried that again and they kept using the shift on him so yeah.. there's that.

[Blzer]

Re: Bunting against the Shift... Why don't more teams do it?

I think it's funny that people think Major League hitters can't lay down a bunt. These guys practice it everyday in BP, and while I understand it's not the same, their hand-eye control is good enough to lay down an easy bunt toward 3rd base (Rizzo did it twice in a game earlier this season).

You'd be amazed how many OS members think it's not an easy task. I'm not one of them.

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...easier-do.html

[kehlis]

Re: Bunting against the Shift... Why don't more teams do it?

To me the number one reason to keep bunting is to get teams to stop using the shift against you.

[Jr.]

Re: Bunting against the Shift... Why don't more teams do it?

To me the number one reason to keep bunting is to get teams to stop using the shift against you.

That's just it though, I think a manager would be fine with a guy they're doing that shift on, bunting every AB. So I don't think it would deter them.

We can't know for sure because no one has tried it though. Maybe it would work.

[rdnk]

Re: Bunting against the Shift... Why don't more teams do it?

I'd look at it by a player by player basis. Many players would have an easier time flairing it the opposite way rather than bunting against the extreme shift. Some players are too slow to leg it out unless the bunt was absolutely perfect, depending on how extreme the shift was.

That being said, I do agree that more players need to try it.

[kehlis]

Re: Bunting against the Shift... Why don't more teams do it?

That's just it though, I think a manager would be fine with a guy they're doing that shift on, bunting every AB. So I don't think it would deter them.

We can't know for sure because no one has tried it though. Maybe it would work.

Fair point, I hadn't thought of it from that angle.

[elTodd]

Re: Bunting against the Shift... Why don't more teams do it?

I'm all but certain that teams talk about doing it. I think its a similar discussion to the one about Joey Votto earlier this year. Do you want your cleanup/best hitter trying to drive in runs or reach base safely at all costs?

It's an interesting discussion for sure. I like the Matt Adams approach of just getting better at driving the ball the other way. That's the only way to really deter the shift.

[Jr.]

Re: Bunting against the Shift... Why don't more teams do it?

I'm all but certain that teams talk about doing it. I think its a similar discussion to the one about Joey Votto earlier this year. Do you want your cleanup/best hitter trying to drive in runs or reach base safely at all costs?

It's an interesting discussion for sure. I like the Matt Adams approach of just getting better at driving the ball the other way. That's the only way to really deter the shift.

Agreed. It's going to be interesting to see how offensive players (namely LH power hitters) adjust over the next 5-10 years as you can only assume these shifts will continue. Unless MLB passes that asinine rule to restrict how defenses can play.

[elTodd]

Re: Bunting against the Shift... Why don't more teams do it?

Restricting defensive alignment would be horrible. But then again, I hate the DH too. So what do I know? Haha

[p_rushing]

Re: Bunting against the Shift... Why don't more teams do it?

Any MLB player can bunt to the 3rd base hole. Most shifts leave have no one there, so they could either bunt or slap the ball that way. As long as it is past the pitcher, they won't be thrown out. We aren't talking about having to put a perfect bunt down with the 3rd baseman charging.

One player on the Braves did it 2 times in a row and then the shift stopped. I think it was McCann or Freeman, can't remember.

If you don't have anyone hitting behind the batter, managers may not care. If there is someone behind them, then they probably would stop or adjust the shift.