Ichiro WILL Make it

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  • Stoud
    MVP
    • Mar 2003
    • 1259

    #46
    Re: Ichiro WILL Make it

    Originally posted by Alliball
    I can name 4 players in the past 20 years that I believe are better pure hitters. I'm talking about guys that can actually drive the ball into the gaps and hit for a damn good average. Any guy with damn near 250 hits shoud have at least 50 doubles and he doesn't even rank in the top 50 in doubles in the AL. I'm not saying the guy isn't good, I'm just saying there is more to the numbers.
    He's a Slap Hitter. With his speed he should be and is only thinking about getting on base. With Ichiro on Base you've got a run ready to score with a Single out of the infield from anyone behind him. That's his job. He is probably the best leadoff hitter of ALL TIME. Here's an interesting fact:

    Ichiro has had only 24 hitless games this entire season. Compare that to some of the other hitters? sure!

    Albert Pujols: 34 hitless games
    Barry Bonds: 48 hitless games
    Todd Helton: 32 hitless games

    Considering what Ichiro's JOB in the Majors is, he's done a more than fine job. You don't castricize hitters of the past that got the Single Season Singles record with 198 singles as being "bad hitters"....IT'S THEIR JOB TO GET ON BASE, and the best way to do that, the PROFESSIONAL way to do that, the UNSELFISH way to do that, is to get a single. Ichiro does it any way he can. You think he's selfish for always getting things started only to hope and pray he can rely on the batter's behind him? Give me a break! You know what happened to the M's this year? Growing pain. Certain guys got older and couldn't perform as well, and quite frankly, in a stadium with as big of dimensions as Safeco has, the older you get and the less power you have, the less production you're going to bring in for your team. In a few years the Padres will be experiencing the same thing. When you're a Leadoff hitter you're not selfishly thinking "get the double!" all the time! the MANAGER wants you to just get on base and use your speed to get across the plate. It says alot that while the entire AL knows the threat Ichiro presents, he has persisted on and now will break 6 or 7 records this year because of it. You say numbers are so important, and you think (and I don't know where you get this crazy idea) that leadoff hitters should be trying to leg out a double whenever they can...well RECORDS speak louder than Numbers, especially when it's not just one, but MANY Records, some HUGE, some not such a big deal....and with all the records he's breaking in establishing himself as the best leadoff hitter of our time, if not of all time, he deserves alot of recognition and consideration for MVP.

    If Ichiro lost a little of his Superstar status in his last few years, these records will propel him back to stardom in no time.

    Comment

    • Stoud
      MVP
      • Mar 2003
      • 1259

      #47
      Re: Ichiro WILL Make it

      Originally posted by Alliball
      I can name 4 players in the past 20 years that I believe are better pure hitters. I'm talking about guys that can actually drive the ball into the gaps and hit for a damn good average. Any guy with damn near 250 hits shoud have at least 50 doubles and he doesn't even rank in the top 50 in doubles in the AL. I'm not saying the guy isn't good, I'm just saying there is more to the numbers.
      He's a Slap Hitter. With his speed he should be and is only thinking about getting on base. With Ichiro on Base you've got a run ready to score with a Single out of the infield from anyone behind him. That's his job. He is probably the best leadoff hitter of ALL TIME. Here's an interesting fact:

      Ichiro has had only 24 hitless games this entire season. Compare that to some of the other hitters? sure!

      Albert Pujols: 34 hitless games
      Barry Bonds: 48 hitless games
      Todd Helton: 32 hitless games

      Considering what Ichiro's JOB in the Majors is, he's done a more than fine job. You don't castricize hitters of the past that got the Single Season Singles record with 198 singles as being "bad hitters"....IT'S THEIR JOB TO GET ON BASE, and the best way to do that, the PROFESSIONAL way to do that, the UNSELFISH way to do that, is to get a single. Ichiro does it any way he can. You think he's selfish for always getting things started only to hope and pray he can rely on the batter's behind him? Give me a break! You know what happened to the M's this year? Growing pain. Certain guys got older and couldn't perform as well, and quite frankly, in a stadium with as big of dimensions as Safeco has, the older you get and the less power you have, the less production you're going to bring in for your team. In a few years the Padres will be experiencing the same thing. When you're a Leadoff hitter you're not selfishly thinking "get the double!" all the time! the MANAGER wants you to just get on base and use your speed to get across the plate. It says alot that while the entire AL knows the threat Ichiro presents, he has persisted on and now will break 6 or 7 records this year because of it. You say numbers are so important, and you think (and I don't know where you get this crazy idea) that leadoff hitters should be trying to leg out a double whenever they can...well RECORDS speak louder than Numbers, especially when it's not just one, but MANY Records, some HUGE, some not such a big deal....and with all the records he's breaking in establishing himself as the best leadoff hitter of our time, if not of all time, he deserves alot of recognition and consideration for MVP.

      If Ichiro lost a little of his Superstar status in his last few years, these records will propel him back to stardom in no time.

      Comment

      • Alliball
        MVP
        • Aug 2004
        • 2368

        #48
        Re: Ichiro WILL Make it

        Originally posted by Stoud
        He is probably the best leadoff hitter of ALL TIME.
        If I've been told I don't know what I'm talking about, then where does this belong? I really don't think there is any argument about who the best leadoff hitter of all time is.

        Ever here of Ricky Henderson? 2295 runs, 3055 hits, 1406 stolen bases, .807 SB%, 2190 walks, .401 OBP, talking about numbers that speak for themselves. Even the biggest Ichiro lover of all can't argue those numbers. This is the first year that Ichiro will even have a OBP of .400, which to many is the bench mark of for leadoff men. Henderson had a streak of 9 straight seasons of .400 or better and 11 in 13 years.

        One more time, I'm not saying that Ichiro isn't good, but I will say without a doubt he isn't even in the same catigory as Ricky Henderson.

        I think many will agree that putting Bonds on that list of hitless games was a stretch at best. For God sakes, the guy gets a pitch a game to hit, if that. I will say that I may have overstated things when I said he should have at least 50 doubles, but asking him to have at least 35 with his speed isn't a stretch. And bunting with 2 outs, even if you are Ichiro, is just bad baseball.
        Last edited by Alliball; 09-25-2004, 06:11 AM.

        Comment

        • Alliball
          MVP
          • Aug 2004
          • 2368

          #49
          Re: Ichiro WILL Make it

          Originally posted by Stoud
          He is probably the best leadoff hitter of ALL TIME.
          If I've been told I don't know what I'm talking about, then where does this belong? I really don't think there is any argument about who the best leadoff hitter of all time is.

          Ever here of Ricky Henderson? 2295 runs, 3055 hits, 1406 stolen bases, .807 SB%, 2190 walks, .401 OBP, talking about numbers that speak for themselves. Even the biggest Ichiro lover of all can't argue those numbers. This is the first year that Ichiro will even have a OBP of .400, which to many is the bench mark of for leadoff men. Henderson had a streak of 9 straight seasons of .400 or better and 11 in 13 years.

          One more time, I'm not saying that Ichiro isn't good, but I will say without a doubt he isn't even in the same catigory as Ricky Henderson.

          I think many will agree that putting Bonds on that list of hitless games was a stretch at best. For God sakes, the guy gets a pitch a game to hit, if that. I will say that I may have overstated things when I said he should have at least 50 doubles, but asking him to have at least 35 with his speed isn't a stretch. And bunting with 2 outs, even if you are Ichiro, is just bad baseball.

          Comment

          • skitch
            Fear Ameer
            • Oct 2002
            • 12349

            #50
            Re: Ichiro WILL Make it

            ^if you get on base w/ those bunts, why is it bad baseball?^

            sure, i can see what you're saying, it's a very risky move, but if it works, why not?

            Comment

            • skitch
              Fear Ameer
              • Oct 2002
              • 12349

              #51
              Re: Ichiro WILL Make it

              ^if you get on base w/ those bunts, why is it bad baseball?^

              sure, i can see what you're saying, it's a very risky move, but if it works, why not?

              Comment

              • 3rdAnswer
                Regular Cat Records®
                • Sep 2002
                • 10845

                #52
                Re: Ichiro WILL Make it

                Originally posted by Kredit
                ^if you get on base w/ those bunts, why is it bad baseball?^

                sure, i can see what you're saying, it's a very risky move, but if it works, why not?
                I agree. For over half of the league, that would be bad baseball.

                But 98% of the league is not Ichiro
                -Jay Illestrate, Emcee/Producer/Graphic Artist
                www.REGULARCATRECORDS.COM
                New York Giants - Duke Blue Devils - Charlotte Hornets - San Antonio Spurs

                Comment

                • 3rdAnswer
                  Regular Cat Records®
                  • Sep 2002
                  • 10845

                  #53
                  Re: Ichiro WILL Make it

                  Originally posted by Kredit
                  ^if you get on base w/ those bunts, why is it bad baseball?^

                  sure, i can see what you're saying, it's a very risky move, but if it works, why not?
                  I agree. For over half of the league, that would be bad baseball.

                  But 98% of the league is not Ichiro
                  -Jay Illestrate, Emcee/Producer/Graphic Artist
                  www.REGULARCATRECORDS.COM
                  New York Giants - Duke Blue Devils - Charlotte Hornets - San Antonio Spurs

                  Comment

                  • RA3000
                    Rookie
                    • Jun 2003
                    • 269

                    #54
                    Re: Ichiro WILL Make it

                    Wow, he's getting really close to breaking the 257 mark.
                    Hope he does it.

                    Comment

                    • RA3000
                      Rookie
                      • Jun 2003
                      • 269

                      #55
                      Re: Ichiro WILL Make it

                      Wow, he's getting really close to breaking the 257 mark.
                      Hope he does it.

                      Comment

                      • mjb2124
                        Hall Of Fame
                        • Aug 2002
                        • 13649

                        #56
                        Re: Ichiro WILL Make it

                        I hate to bring this debate up, but thought it might spark some interesting conversation.

                        Ichiro is going to break the record unless he goes on some horrible slump the last few games. HOWEVER, Sisler did it in 154 games. Ichiro didn't.

                        It doesn't take anything away from the record, but is it the type of thing where you'd consider putting an asterick beside his soon to be record?

                        Comment

                        • mjb2124
                          Hall Of Fame
                          • Aug 2002
                          • 13649

                          #57
                          Re: Ichiro WILL Make it

                          I hate to bring this debate up, but thought it might spark some interesting conversation.

                          Ichiro is going to break the record unless he goes on some horrible slump the last few games. HOWEVER, Sisler did it in 154 games. Ichiro didn't.

                          It doesn't take anything away from the record, but is it the type of thing where you'd consider putting an asterick beside his soon to be record?

                          Comment

                          • bruins09
                            Rookie
                            • Mar 2004
                            • 365

                            #58
                            Re: Ichiro WILL Make it

                            he only needs 2 to set the record and he has 3 games . . . . more than plenty

                            Comment

                            • bruins09
                              Rookie
                              • Mar 2004
                              • 365

                              #59
                              Re: Ichiro WILL Make it

                              he only needs 2 to set the record and he has 3 games . . . . more than plenty

                              Comment

                              • Karlos05
                                -
                                • Mar 2003
                                • 5814

                                #60
                                Re: Ichiro WILL Make it

                                Originally posted by joeboo
                                I hate to bring this debate up, but thought it might spark some interesting conversation.

                                Ichiro is going to break the record unless he goes on some horrible slump the last few games. HOWEVER, Sisler did it in 154 games. Ichiro didn't.

                                It doesn't take anything away from the record, but is it the type of thing where you'd consider putting an asterick beside his soon to be record?
                                Did you by any chance read Rick Reilly's article this week in SI?

                                Comment

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