2015 MLB Hot Stove thread

[redsox4evur]

Re: 2015 MLB Hot Stove thread

Eh, this is fairly short-sighted. This is how the Red Sox and Yankees ended up where they are, and the DBacks don't quite have the spending ability that those organizations do.

It may work in the short-term, but it's not great for long-term success.

Also this a little short sighted as well. They did when they were winning all the time as well. The Yankees had the core 4 of Jeter, Mo, Posada, and Pettite But then spent on guys like Clemens, Mussina, Giambi, Matsui, A-Rod, etc. And the Red Sox didn't really have many guys on that '04 roster, IIRC. The only ones I can think of off the top of my head are Trot Nixon, and Youkilis. In '07 it was a little different as you had guys like Ellsbury, Pap, and Pedroia. But still most were brought in through trades and FA. You need a balance of both homegrown and brought in from the outside.

[SPTO]

Re: 2015 MLB Hot Stove thread

I might've traded Stroman for that haul, lol.

You would have me crying. I like that kid A LOT. I'd get over it though and be excited as hell.

[Sportsforever]

Re: 2015 MLB Hot Stove thread

Has nothing to do with Shelby Miller and everything to do with "by the time this franchise is competing again" attitude.

You know what else does nothing for long-term success? Relying on 25 guys to pan out all at once and expecting a team that wouldn't even pay Andrelton Simmons 60 million over 5 years to do whatever it takes to actually keep the ones that do.

Until we have a new owner that is willing to pay to keep guys, this is how we have to operate. I'm thrilled with this deal...best trade Atlanta has made since Fred McGriff.

[redsox4evur]

Re: 2015 MLB Hot Stove thread

He is a good prospect, I didn't dispute that, just that we aren't talking about Alex Rodriguez right here.

Alright because you said we were getting caught on him being a #1 pick and that last years draft was not very good, which is kinda saying he really isn't all that great.

[Jr.]

Re: 2015 MLB Hot Stove thread

Also this a little short sighted as well. They did when they were winning all the time as well. The Yankees had the core 4 of Jeter, Mo, Posada, and Pettite But then spent on guys like Clemens, Mussina, Giambi, Matsui, A-Rod, etc. And the Red Sox didn't really have many guys on that '04 roster, IIRC. The only ones I can think of off the top of my head are Trot Nixon, and Youkilis. In '07 it was a little different as you had guys like Ellsbury, Pap, and Pedroia. But still most were brought in through trades and FA. You need a balance of both homegrown and brought in from the outside.

Right.. it can work in the short-term (or semi-long term if you're the Yankees), as I stated. The DBacks can't afford a payroll that's 15% above everyone else (or whatever it was), as the Yankees had for so long.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: 2015 MLB Hot Stove thread

Until we have a new owner that is willing to pay to keep guys, this is how we have to operate. I'm thrilled with this deal...best trade Atlanta has made since Fred McGriff.

Except Fred McGriff was a proven star first baseman that they acquired at the trade deadline for a team that won 100 games.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: 2015 MLB Hot Stove thread

Right.. it can work in the short-term (or semi-long term if you're the Yankees), as I stated. The DBacks can't afford a payroll that's 15% above everyone else (or whatever it was), as the Yankees had for so long.

Well they're gonna do it. And they have 3 awesome pitchers now and two stellar players and one potentially really good Cuban to carry them offensively. So we'll see.

[redsox4evur]

Re: 2015 MLB Hot Stove thread

Zobrist picked cubs for family/location reasons. This wasn't about the $. Per Jon Heyman.

[Master Live 013]

Re: 2015 MLB Hot Stove thread

D-backs definitely assembling a strong team for 2017.

[Jr.]

Re: 2015 MLB Hot Stove thread

Well they're gonna do it. And they have 3 awesome pitchers now and two stellar players and one potentially really good Cuban to carry them offensively. So we'll see.

And they should be good, but we've seen how the Winter champions have fared before. It doesn't always work out. If it doesn't, I don't think DBacks fans are going to like where the organization is in 7 years or so.

But hey, we could all be dead by then, so I do get what you're saying.

[Sportsforever]

Re: 2015 MLB Hot Stove thread

Except Fred McGriff was a proven star first baseman that they acquired at the trade deadline for a team that won 100 games.

Yup...but my point is the impact from this trade will likely be as big. I can't think of a bigger trade the organization has made since. The Justice/Grissom for Lofton certainly didn't pan out...let me ask, why do you not like the deal? These prospects that came back aren't 18 years old kids. Enciarte put up a 5 war season this year and is 25, Aaron Blair is 23 and probably big league ready now. Swanson is 22 and will move quickly...

[SPTO]

Re: 2015 MLB Hot Stove thread

He is a good prospect, I didn't dispute that, just that we aren't talking about Alex Rodriguez right here.

Agreed but way back in '93 people were touting him to be a megastar which he was but the first round of that draft wasn't anything earth shattering. Two Hall of Very Good players and a lot of pretty capable guys but nothing earth shattering.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_Major_League_Baseball_draft#First_round_selections

[Speedy]

Re: 2015 MLB Hot Stove thread

I get it, personally.

We're not going to compete this year or next...try to stock up for when you think the top prospects will arrive so you've got a team that is coming up together. It's like the 2005 Braves - all of those players grew up in the minors together and won a thrilling division race together as rookies. They want to repeat that so when everybody gets to the majors (assuming 2017 is what they're gunning for), ATL will be the team to beat for years.

That said, it's all speculation and at best potential unrealized. He's trading proven MLB talent that is YOUNG for unproven prospects like 2-3 years younger. Regardless of the hauls and prospects we get back, surely you all understand how easy it is to become apathetic towards this team and rooting for it. It's not just one player...it's the entire lineup.

The trades completed are a mixed bag. Oliveria is 30 years old - how does he fit into this "young and contending for years to come" plan? What about trading Simba? Others are great deals...the trade w/AZ to get Touki Toussaint (2014 1st rounder) for practically nothing; Shelby Miller trade is great as SF is right in we basically traded Heyward for 4 long time MLB players (again potentially).

I saw an article where Hart/Cop were talking to reporters about the state of the franchise. Cop isn't very media savvy but Hart is and he explained that he understands the fanbase is dispondent and frankly has contempt for the front office but it's a process and they want to be relevant for years to come vs. short fixes like what we tried with the trade for JUp. I agree with his perspective as I want ATL to be WS contenders annually but this is a risk they're taking - both financially and in public "approval".

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: 2015 MLB Hot Stove thread

The **** are the Cubs doing?

LOL and LOL again. They're improving.

Damn near $15 million per for a career .265 hitter.

Only in 2015.

LOL. 'Cause batting average is why we want Zobrist. Nothing to do with OBP, or experience, or defensive expertise at several positions, or switch-hitting, or having decent pop for a guy who plays 2B, or consistent performance, or.......

Man, Castro's value must've been in the dumps.

LOL @ that Castro deal.

Cubs got fleeced. Warren and Brendan Ryan lmfaoo

Understand it was probably a salary dump but christ, was his stock that low?

I told you guys. Castro has shot his value to hell with a very turbulent career to this point. Love the fact that dumping Castro frees up 60% of the money we just gave to Zobes. It's basically about $5MM more per season to have Zobrist than Castro. And thank god it's the end of the hand-wringing over should we/shouldn't we with Starlin.

This has to be fake. There's no way the Braves ripped them off that badly.

Oh, Stew.....LOL. I only hope we could refer to him in RAJ format, but Stew's not a junior that I know of.

[Master Live 013]

Re: 2015 MLB Hot Stove thread

Agreed but way back in '93 people were touting him to be a megastar which he was but the first round of that draft wasn't anything earth shattering. Two Hall of Very Good players and a lot of pretty capable guys but nothing earth shattering.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_M...und_selections

I can't speak to that draft (aside from Alex Rodriguez), I have no context (too young) for it, don't know how well regarded that class was coming into the draft.