Hall of Fame or not?: Ivan Rodriguez

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  • VanCitySportsGuy
    NYG_Meth
    • Feb 2003
    • 9351

    #1

    Hall of Fame or not?: Ivan Rodriguez

    I profiled Barry Larkin earlier and this time I'll do the same with Pudge.
    http://forums.operationsports.com/vB...d.php?t=110938

    Ivan Rodriguez had a terrific season at age 32 for the Tigers, hitting .334/.383/.510 and leading them to a 29 game improvement in the standings. He caught 124 games, low for him, but it's typical for catchers his age. He has now caught 1688 games. This was the also the year that he reached a number of significant career markers, 1000 runs scored and driven in, 2000 hits, 250 homers.

    Pudge arrived in the majors at age 19, with no triple A experience and only 50 games at double A. He had hit .274/.294/.389 in double A Tulsa, but the Rangers were so impressed with his defence that he got the call. His arm was indeed fabulous, and within a year or two, he was the consensus best defensive catcher in the majors. He hit .260 with 3 homers in 280 at-bats his first season, but over the next 4-5 years, his average and power steadily improved. His plate discipline was poor when he arrived in the majors, and has improved more slowly than the other aspects of his offensive game but it is now average.

    At the age of 32 he stacks up very well with Gary Carter, Yogi Berra, and Johnny Bench, and Ted Simmons in virtually every offensive category.

    So, what next for Pudge? Looking at his peers might be a start. After age 32, Ted Simmons had one season left of catching. He caught 86 games that year, and then finished out his career as a DH. Yogi did a little better, catching for significant parts of 3 more seasons between 63 and 116 games per year, and playing outfield and first base. By age 32, Johnny Bench was done as a catcher, while Gary Carter had 2 more seasons left.

    Pudge’s career path is more favorable than any of his peers here. He’s hitting as well as ever, if not better. My guess is that he’ll follow the Yogi career path and catch between 250-300 more games. However, his slow steady improvement with the stick will, in my opinion, lead to a productive end of career as a DH. I'm projecting he will end his career with around 375 homers which would place him above Bench (356) but below Piazza as the 2nd greatest HR hitting catcher.

    With his defensive skill (11 Gold Gloves already putting him in first place among catchers), he’s basically achieved Johnny Bench’s career already. When he’s done, I don’t think that there will be any question who the greatest catcher is.

    So to conclude, not only is Pudge a first ballot HoF'er, he will be the greatest catcher to ever play Baseball.
  • ab713
    Rookie
    • Dec 2002
    • 315

    #2
    Re: Hall of Fame or not?: Ivan Rodriguez

    Si

    Comment

    • ab713
      Rookie
      • Dec 2002
      • 315

      #3
      Re: Hall of Fame or not?: Ivan Rodriguez

      Si

      Comment

      • warnerwlf98
        MVP
        • Sep 2003
        • 1807

        #4
        Re: Hall of Fame or not?: Ivan Rodriguez

        If I-Rod plays 4 or 5 more years and eclipses 300 HRs, reach 2500 hits, and knock in 1500 runs, then he'd be hall of fame material.

        He may be the best catcher playing today, or even in the last 15 years, but he is in no way the best catcher ever to play. If Roy Campanella and Mickey Cochrane were both alive today, they wouldn't consider I-Rod the best ever. They each won MVP awards - Campanella won 3 MVPs and Cochrane was the greatest hitting catcher ever with a .320 lifetime average. Mickey Mantle was named after Mickey Cochrane.

        We may not get a straight answer out of Yogi (except for a Yogi-ism maybe), but you'd never hear him say that he's worse than I-Rod. The same goes for Johnny Bench - he hit more homers and had a stronger arm.
        "We were expecting a miracle with Elite, but instead we got Jesus at halfcourt."

        -OS Radio Show

        (I don't remember who said this but PM me who did say it, and I'll quote him properly)

        Comment

        • warnerwlf98
          MVP
          • Sep 2003
          • 1807

          #5
          Re: Hall of Fame or not?: Ivan Rodriguez

          If I-Rod plays 4 or 5 more years and eclipses 300 HRs, reach 2500 hits, and knock in 1500 runs, then he'd be hall of fame material.

          He may be the best catcher playing today, or even in the last 15 years, but he is in no way the best catcher ever to play. If Roy Campanella and Mickey Cochrane were both alive today, they wouldn't consider I-Rod the best ever. They each won MVP awards - Campanella won 3 MVPs and Cochrane was the greatest hitting catcher ever with a .320 lifetime average. Mickey Mantle was named after Mickey Cochrane.

          We may not get a straight answer out of Yogi (except for a Yogi-ism maybe), but you'd never hear him say that he's worse than I-Rod. The same goes for Johnny Bench - he hit more homers and had a stronger arm.
          "We were expecting a miracle with Elite, but instead we got Jesus at halfcourt."

          -OS Radio Show

          (I don't remember who said this but PM me who did say it, and I'll quote him properly)

          Comment

          • Vince
            Bow for Bau
            • Aug 2002
            • 26017

            #6
            Re: Hall of Fame or not?: Ivan Rodriguez

            Best defensive catcher to ever play.Yes.Forget the batting stats.Although they are very solid,he'll get in because of his glove.
            @ me or dap me

            http://twitter.com/52isthemike

            Comment

            • Vince
              Bow for Bau
              • Aug 2002
              • 26017

              #7
              Re: Hall of Fame or not?: Ivan Rodriguez

              Best defensive catcher to ever play.Yes.Forget the batting stats.Although they are very solid,he'll get in because of his glove.
              @ me or dap me

              http://twitter.com/52isthemike

              Comment

              • VanCitySportsGuy
                NYG_Meth
                • Feb 2003
                • 9351

                #8
                Re: Hall of Fame or not?: Ivan Rodriguez

                Originally posted by warnerwlf98
                If I-Rod plays 4 or 5 more years and eclipses 300 HRs, reach 2500 hits, and knock in 1500 runs, then he'd be hall of fame material.

                He may be the best catcher playing today, or even in the last 15 years, but he is in no way the best catcher ever to play. If Roy Campanella and Mickey Cochrane were both alive today, they wouldn't consider I-Rod the best ever. They each won MVP awards - Campanella won 3 MVPs and Cochrane was the greatest hitting catcher ever with a .320 lifetime average. Mickey Mantle was named after Mickey Cochrane.

                We may not get a straight answer out of Yogi (except for a Yogi-ism maybe), but you'd never hear him say that he's worse than I-Rod. The same goes for Johnny Bench - he hit more homers and had a stronger arm.
                Cochrane was a fine catcher but I don't think he's better than Pudge defensively, and there's no disputing Pudge has more pop in his bat than Cochrane.

                Campanella was another great catcher but Pudge already has more HR's and RBI's than him. Campanella's numbers are hurt by the fact he only played 10 seasons in the Majors and didn't start until age 26.

                Comment

                • VanCitySportsGuy
                  NYG_Meth
                  • Feb 2003
                  • 9351

                  #9
                  Re: Hall of Fame or not?: Ivan Rodriguez

                  Originally posted by warnerwlf98
                  If I-Rod plays 4 or 5 more years and eclipses 300 HRs, reach 2500 hits, and knock in 1500 runs, then he'd be hall of fame material.

                  He may be the best catcher playing today, or even in the last 15 years, but he is in no way the best catcher ever to play. If Roy Campanella and Mickey Cochrane were both alive today, they wouldn't consider I-Rod the best ever. They each won MVP awards - Campanella won 3 MVPs and Cochrane was the greatest hitting catcher ever with a .320 lifetime average. Mickey Mantle was named after Mickey Cochrane.

                  We may not get a straight answer out of Yogi (except for a Yogi-ism maybe), but you'd never hear him say that he's worse than I-Rod. The same goes for Johnny Bench - he hit more homers and had a stronger arm.
                  Cochrane was a fine catcher but I don't think he's better than Pudge defensively, and there's no disputing Pudge has more pop in his bat than Cochrane.

                  Campanella was another great catcher but Pudge already has more HR's and RBI's than him. Campanella's numbers are hurt by the fact he only played 10 seasons in the Majors and didn't start until age 26.

                  Comment

                  • glucklich
                    Banned
                    • Jun 2004
                    • 4272

                    #10
                    Re: Hall of Fame or not?: Ivan Rodriguez

                    Legendary throwing arm, solid offensive numbers and a WS ring...not a question.

                    Comment

                    • glucklich
                      Banned
                      • Jun 2004
                      • 4272

                      #11
                      Re: Hall of Fame or not?: Ivan Rodriguez

                      Legendary throwing arm, solid offensive numbers and a WS ring...not a question.

                      Comment

                      • snivlem
                        * d*n't b*l**v* *n g*ns.
                        • Jul 2003
                        • 2342

                        #12
                        Re: Hall of Fame or not?: Ivan Rodriguez

                        no question about it. hard to believe anyone would question it. But I'm a biased Ranger fan.

                        Originally posted by warnerwlf98
                        They each won MVP awards...
                        Hey, Pudge won one.
                        I'm sofa king, we Todd Ed.

                        Comment

                        • snivlem
                          * d*n't b*l**v* *n g*ns.
                          • Jul 2003
                          • 2342

                          #13
                          Re: Hall of Fame or not?: Ivan Rodriguez

                          no question about it. hard to believe anyone would question it. But I'm a biased Ranger fan.

                          Originally posted by warnerwlf98
                          They each won MVP awards...
                          Hey, Pudge won one.
                          I'm sofa king, we Todd Ed.

                          Comment

                          • bkrich83
                            Has Been
                            • Jul 2002
                            • 71582

                            #14
                            Re: Hall of Fame or not?: Ivan Rodriguez

                            Considering is the best defensive catcher of this era bar none, and he's put up such good numbers at the plate, I can't see why he wouldn't be in the HOF.

                            Probably the best Catcher in baseball in the last 10-20 years. He's a HOF'er hands down,
                            Tracking my NCAA Coach Career

                            Comment

                            • bkrich83
                              Has Been
                              • Jul 2002
                              • 71582

                              #15
                              Re: Hall of Fame or not?: Ivan Rodriguez

                              Considering is the best defensive catcher of this era bar none, and he's put up such good numbers at the plate, I can't see why he wouldn't be in the HOF.

                              Probably the best Catcher in baseball in the last 10-20 years. He's a HOF'er hands down,
                              Tracking my NCAA Coach Career

                              Comment

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