Poll on increasing the action in MLB

[Sportsforever]

Re: MLB plans to eliminate the shift next for 2022 season

While I am not a fan of messing with the game and I've generally been against banning shifts, I'm curious to see what the impact is. There is NO doubt it has impacted LHB and offense in general. While I think it's weird to tell the defense to NOT do their best to try and stop a hit (really...that's the defense's job...so why not let them do it as they see best?), I also don't think it's an apples to apples comparison with football banning the 3-4 defense, etc.

IMO, this is more like basketball having something like the 3-second rule or goal tending. If you didn't have those rules in basketball, the game would be fundamentally different and not nearly as entertaining. I'm willing to see (if they do this) what the ramifications are. I do hope they don't get crazy and dictate specific spots where fielders have to play. IMO, a general stance of having 2 infielders on each side of 2nd base with no feet in the outfield grass upon the pitcher beginning his motion is good enough.

[Blzer]

Re: Poll on increasing the action in MLB

These guys have had a bat in their hands their entire lives.

You'll never convince me they don't have the knowledge, ability, or discipline to adapt to another style of play.

Optimal? Desired? Probably not. Flat out unable? That takes the PRO right out of professional.

Launch angle physics. You can’t feasibly hit a ball on the ground the other way with authority given the angle they’re trying to make contact with the ball. You’d literally have to change their swing.

What you’re asking is not for them to go opposite field, but opposite field on the ground. It’s hard for them to do with their launch angle approach.

[canes21]

Re: Poll on increasing the action in MLB

These guys have had a bat in their hands their entire lives.

You'll never convince me they don't have the knowledge, ability, or discipline to adapt to another style of play.

Optimal? Desired? Probably not. Flat out unable? That takes the PRO right out of professional.

If they could do it...... they'd do it. It really is that simple. There is no league wide conspiracy where all hitters have decided to hit into shifts on purpose.

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[DarthRambo]

Re: MLB plans to eliminate the shift next for 2022 season

While I am not a fan of messing with the game and I've generally been against banning shifts, I'm curious to see what the impact is. There is NO doubt it has impacted LHB and offense in general. While I think it's weird to tell the defense to NOT do their best to try and stop a hit (really...that's the defense's job...so why not let them do it as they see best?), I also don't think it's an apples to apples comparison with football banning the 3-4 defense, etc.

IMO, this is more like basketball having something like the 3-second rule or goal tending. If you didn't have those rules in basketball, the game would be fundamentally different and not nearly as entertaining. I'm willing to see (if they do this) what the ramifications are. I do hope they don't get crazy and dictate specific spots where fielders have to play. IMO, a general stance of having 2 infielders on each side of 2nd base with no feet in the outfield grass upon the pitcher beginning his motion is good enough.

I completely agree. Two position players on each side of 2nd base is far enough. If the 3rd baseman is playing in the OF then so be it, but as long as he's on the left side of 2nd base I'm all for that. No reason for Manny Machado to be in right center field. It just looks absurd and takes away too much from the game. I mean we RARELY see true web gems nowadays because of the shifting.

And that's the best analogy I've seen comparing the shift to goaltending or 3 sec rule in basketball.


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[canes21]

Re: MLB plans to eliminate the shift next for 2022 season

The 3 second rule is a great comparison, especially because it is also a defensive rule as well. Another similar rule, although offensive, is in football limiting the amount of players that can play on the line. If that rule ceased to exist then we would see some notable shifts in the way offenses played certain situations or overall in general.

I hope they stick with something simple. The 1B and 2B have to stay on the right side of the infield, the SS and the 3B have to stay on the left side of the infield. It has never made much sense that a player that literally plays THIRD BASE is sitting in the outfield between first and second base.

This rule still allows some shifting, but eliminates having 3 infielders between 1st and 2nd making it basically impossible for a left handed hitter to get a hit without hitting it over everyone's head. You can still play your SS up the middle essentially, your 1B along the line, and the 2B deep in the hole. This is still a difficult shift for a lefty to put a ball through, but at least now they have a chance to find some space between fielders, something they don't have when teams are throwing the 3B out there in shallow right field also.

Pitchers are too effective pitching to the shifts. You mentioned Rizzo, Freeman is another guy. He's an elite hitter. He has better bat control than the vast majority of MLB players ever. He has openly said he does try to hit against the shift. He still can't do it with any consistency because it is simply near impossible to do if you're pitched appropriately. If a pitcher misses their target and catches too much plate away then these guys can poke it down the left side and get a hit. These pitchers aren't missing there all that often. When pitchers are throwing you inside with consistency with the nasty stuff we see these days, not even the elite of the elite hitters are going to be able to push a ball the other way much if at all.

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[Madden08PCgmr]

Re: MLB plans to eliminate the shift next for 2022 season

No reason for Manny Machado to be in right center field. It just looks absurd and takes away too much from the game.

You're saying in the other thread hitters can't directionally go to the opposite field, against the shift.

So its fair to ban teams from playing the optimal defense to combat the way players are hitting?

To me, this is wrong on every level. The polar opposite of sport and competition.

If you're going to play a certain way, and won't change, or can't change, suffer the consequence. That is exactly what is deserved.

[DarthRambo]

Re: MLB plans to eliminate the shift next for 2022 season

You're saying in the other thread hitters can't directionally go to the opposite field, against the shift.

So its fair to ban teams from playing the optimal defense to combat the way players are hitting?

To me, this is wrong on every level. The polar opposite of sport and competition.

If you're going to play a certain way, and won't change, or can't change, suffer the consequence. That is exactly what is deserved.

IMO you have your CF and RF for a reason. They are there to patrol RF, and the CF patrols center and right center. I would argue if those two alone aren't good enough to stop a ball from landing in front or behind them alone then you need better outfielders, NOT the dang 3rd baseman playing between the CF and RF.

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[canes21]

Re: Poll on increasing the action in MLB

I love the idea of an entire clubhouse full of incredibly competitive people with hundreds of millions of dollars on the line and they have all come to the agreement that even though they could just decide to start hitting the ball against the shift and start winning more games, they've instead all decided they'd rather hit into the shift consistently and lower their chances at winning.

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[DarthRambo]

Re: MLB plans to eliminate the shift next for 2022 season

And I completely understand the argument you're making. However, just because they are professional hitters doesn't mean they can hit the other way. Remember, pitchers are professional too and know exactly where to pitch to get these guys to hit where the shift is. Would you rather stop the shifting just to an extent, not ban it? Or would you rather have a rule where you can't pitch inside more than three times in a row or it's a ball no matter what? Basically that is the choices we have or else we continue to see batting averages plummet and the game get more boring to watch than it already is.

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[Madden08PCgmr]

Re: Poll on increasing the action in MLB

Why not let hitters take steroids again?

Enabling them this way is basically the same thing.

[reyes the roof]

Re: MLB plans to eliminate the shift next for 2022 season

I think the majority of fans want to see the game how they remember playing it as a kid overall. It is kind of crazy how baseball looks and plays the same until you get to pro ball then it looks and plays completely different. Also, getting rid of shifts will prompt teams to have lineups where it's not 1-9 trying to hit a homerun. We might actually see the revival of more speed and contact in lineups instead of either strikeout or homeruns.

I don’t see that happening, teams shift because the offense is trying to pull the ball and hit a home run. By banning the shift you’re giving players more reason to try and pull the ball

The biggest change I’d expect is a possible approach to pitching. Instead of pitching to the side of the player where you’re defense is positioned, you may see pitchers work to the opposite side now if you can only pull a ball

[baconbits11]

Re: MLB plans to eliminate the shift next for 2022 season

Thank the baseball gods! Now all they have to do is keep the DH out of the National League and I'll be happy.

[Master Live 013]

Re: MLB plans to eliminate the shift next for 2022 season

Based on Manfred comments during the All-Star break I would not be surprised if this were the case. And I like that you guys are comparing it to the 3-second rule in the NBA since I have been against that rule too since it was implemented, which shows I'm consistent :P

Like reyes said, hitter will continue to do their thing, and we will see a rise on balls going thru the right side of the infield, batting average will rise some points. Main people adjusting will be the pitchers.

[canes21]

Re: MLB plans to eliminate the shift next for 2022 season

Based on Manfred comments during the All-Star break I would not be surprised if this were the case. And I like that you guys are comparing it to the 3-second rule in the NBA since I have been against that rule too since it was implemented, which shows I'm consistent :P

Like reyes said, hitter will continue to do their thing, and we will see a rise on balls going thru the right side of the infield, batting average will rise some points. Main people adjusting will be the pitchers.

Once the drastic shifts are gone then you pitch the pull hitters on the outer half of the plate and get them to roll over or pop stuff up more often. Pitchers will survive the change. We have enough data that shows the hitters cannot counter the shift when pitchers pitch it right. Limiting shifts will be good for baseball.

[reyes the roof]

Re: Poll on increasing the action in MLB

Without the shift one of my favorite Mets moments wouldn’t have happened

https://youtu.be/ncX3q7mQf7s